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Discussion Starter #1
Dear all

I am new on here today and would ask your opinion please!

I bought an 806 recently Diesel 1997 as a running project

I let the battery go flat and charged it, but now it wont start

The Electrical guy says its not the ignition as I had that disconnected as I was going to change the barrel due to wear

A different mechanic has it now and cant diagnose between the diesel pump or the ECU and recommends sending the ECU off first to be tested

Any advise on my problem would be ohhh so gratefully received as its potentially an expensive operation as its obviously an old car but I love them

Test....Tom
 

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Dear all

I am new on here today and would ask your opinion please!

I bought an 806 recently Diesel 1997 as a running project

I let the battery go flat and charged it, but now it wont start

The Electrical guy says its not the ignition as I had that disconnected as I was going to change the barrel due to wear

A different mechanic has it now and cant diagnose between the diesel pump or the ECU and recommends sending the ECU off first to be tested

Any advise on my problem would be ohhh so gratefully received as its potentially an expensive operation as its obviously an old car but I love them

Test....Tom
mmmmm i wonder what engine this is????????????????????????????????????
 

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hi... has the imobiliser lost the plot?try a spare key... check battery voltage.. check all fuses...good luck

ps....more info will get more replies.....engine size....is it cranking .....ignition disconected?.....it will help us
 

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its NEVER the ecu thats the method of diagnosis for someone who does not know what they are doing

You changed the barrel so you need to swap the chip from old key to new key !!!!
 

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It's a 1997 diesel, so will be a 1.9td. So like Reliable406 says, you need to change the chip for the key to match, or simply put the old key inside the coil that fits round the ignition barrel, then give it a try. Think you'll find it starts just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for quick reply
So...its a 1997 1905 cc diesel
I didn't change the ignition, only disconnected it to see what was involved to change the barrel and then put the old ignition back and its now connected
The immobiliser goes steady red when the key is turned so its not that apparently
The car does turn over it doesn't get fuel to the pump and it is dry
The mechanic says this can be due to the ECU not playing the game or the diesel pump, hence the confusion
Thanks again, any input would be valuable
 

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You need to check on the light scenario as its been a while since i done 1 but im sure what happens is light is flashing when off when ignition is turned on light goes solid and once immobiliser is happy light goes out same as renaults.

Citrail may be able to confirm but im sure thats correct
 

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Forunately mine doesn't have one, but I drove an XM a few weeks ago.

If the light was flashing, the car wouldn't start.
Once the correct code had been entered the green light was lit and the car started.

Assuming the 806 is the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
More progress and then not

Ok...thanks for your reply's so far

The car now is in the position where the immobiliser light does go out and when it is plugged in to the local garage computer gives the message "no communication"

The mechanic tells me there is fuel getting to the diesel pump but not coming from it

The message from the diagnostic leads him to believe the ECU is at fault??

Another problem could be the Diesel pump itself which is what he initially diagnosed having got passed the immobiliser light issue

I had the ignition apart with the view of changing it due to wear whilst I was charging the battery but now its back together

When the breakdown guy came he put a booster on the battery and also jump leads to get the max to the battery....could this have done any damage?

A real head scratcher this one....

any thoughts would be really helpful, thank you
 

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Its not a head scratcher

This system is incredibly simple the ECU is NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT !!

The immobiliser system cuts power to the stop solenoid and thats ALL it does so IF your mechanic is right and there is no fuel coming out it is either The fuel stop switch under the bonnet the decoder box on the pump is not unlocking and allowing the stop solenoid to open or the solenoid itself is faulty.

Its not a computer issue !!

Its highly unlikely the pump is faulty either !


Just to add no communication can also be NO POWER you cant communicate with an ecu if the ecu has no power its sounding more and more like simply a fuse or something similarly simple !!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks again reliable406

Sounds like I can chat to the mechanic with this info and we can get closer to the solution

I just had a chat to the previous owner and by chance he said he has had this problem before and got round it by spraying easy start directly into the intake

just found this out 10 mins ago, so we can now target the fuel stop switch or... as you say the solenoid

I really appreciate your input...thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If its jus that I will be relieved and I'll check the power source to the ECU

It has also been suggested there may be an air lock stopping fuel getting through

I will relay all this to the mechanic today and let you know on here for anyone else who

may need the info

Many thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Car started :0

Well an update to my posts

Took the previous owner with me to the garage as he is a friend and he was adamant he could get it going, with his previous experience with the car

We looked under the bonnet and connected bits and pieces that previous guys had been looking at and taken off etc.

He squirted some easy start into the intake, primed the diesel line and checked flow by loosening an igniter

The car spluttered into life after putting a booster on the battery after the third attempt

The conclusion is that every now and again it needs this easy start sequence to get it going, which by a previous thread would indicate every now and again the stop solenoid sticks for some reason??

My question is why couldn't an auto electrician work this out and also the why the second guy who was a local mechanic could not get it going?

It seems these cars due to their quirky nature baffle some people and they don't want to get involved?

So if this happens again I will let you guys know and all the help was really useful, thank you again
 

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The reason your mechanic and auto spark could not work it out is they are blinded by technology and rely on computers and gismos to help them get to a conclusion that is in many cases wrong and the fix is far simpler.

The car is not in the slightest quirky its just some people forget to check the basics your engine can run with only 1 wire connected to the stop solenoid thats all it actually needs everything else is non essential unlike HDI engines which the mechanic seemed to think it was :)

As i say the ECU does not do anything other than control egr and timing advance neither of which would stop fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Still won't start ....my 806

Thank you again for your replies...much appreciated

Update to my post is I have the car back and the mechanic can't find a suitable fix

The situation is as mentioned before we got it started (previous owner) and stopped it after 10 mins....started again no fuss

Left the car there and the mechanic tried to move it 15 mins later, no joy it just wouldn't fire up

So we are back where we started in that there is no fuel getting past the pump

I can see he is reluctant to recommend changing the pump in case it doesn't fix the issue and then the costs are getting to the point of silly if we have to carry on

I am considering with the help I have found on here to tackle removing the housing for the stop solenoid in situ as this is the cheapest avenue to go down initially??

I have limited technical knowledge but was a panel beater in a previous life so maybe its possible? really don't want to let this beat me

Also its the first time in my experience that a mechanic has been stumped or cannot pin point the issue, as I have said before the ECU will not communicate with the diagnostic equipment, so no clues there

Any advise would be most appreciated once again
 

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The ECU does not NEED to communicate with the diagnostic computer it has nothing to diagnose!!

1 the car is too old not OBD friendly
2 the ECU is NOT an ecu it is simply a controller for a few basic functions of timing and EGR nothing more.
3 changing the pump WONT fix it

Try towstarting it if it then starts it most likely a problem at the stop solenoid.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Stop solenoid change?

Thanks once again

We tried towing it at the beginning with the breakdown guy and it didn't want to go then

Trying to get at the solenoid and changing it seems to be the logical next step

do you know if the new solenoid will communicate with the immobiliser without any fuss?

Cheers

tom
 
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