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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all

My 1999 Xud 1.9 TD does not fire up on turning starter over. It's a good battery and the starter turns over healthily. However there was no usual 'click' sound from the glow plug relay when turning the ignition on. I called out the AA who checked the relay with ignition both on and off, and he said the problem was no earth -ve to no. 1 wire thus no power to the glow plugs. There was power +ve to no. 3 wire. I have a spare relay and connected this one up but still no power to glow plugs.

At the moment I have improvised by making a connection between the two terminals (-ve to +ve) on the underside of the relay for 10 seconds or so, turn over the engine, and the engine fires up. I then disconnect the connection. When running the engine is much noisier (knocking) than normal. It quietens down when up to running temp but still noisy.

I presume he is correct in his diagnosis. Is this a faulty earth connection or something else? Do I need to clean the -ve earth connection somewhere? Any help will be much appreciated.
Many thanks for any advice.

Andrew
 

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If you have tried 2 relays then chances are it is wiring that is the issue

There are only about 5 wires apart from the main plug feeds

1 is live with ignition
1 is earth
1 goes to the temp sensor to vary the time it works for depending on temp of engine
1 goes to starter trigger so the relay works while cranking
1 goes to dash to light the light

Its pretty simple if it is a broken earth you could just add a new one in
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Reliable406

What is involved in adding a new earth wire? Will it connect from the relay earth running in the loom and onto the body or the engine? (strange that the earth wire runs in the loom). With a new earth will the knocking noise disappear?

My delay in replying was due to me checking the flywheel sensor which seems ok..

Cheers
 

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Find the engine coolant sensor I think it’s on the end of cylinder head ,pull the plug off the sensor ,the open circuit will put a very cold default value in place for the glow relay ( -30 or so )

If the coolant sensor had gone short to ground or shorted in some way that will put a hot reading in place for the relay and so the earth pathway to the relay will not be present .
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for advice mechanico

I pulled the plug off the sensor that I think is located between the thermostat and engine block (could not see one on end of engine block) and turned over the engine but it did not fire up - I trust that is what I was meant to do. I have a spare 806 that I raid for parts so I did a sensor swap. Still no start up.

If no further advice is received from forum members then next weekend I will try to make a connection between the earth wire from the glow plug relay to the 806 body.

Thanks
 

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Sorry I’ve miss read this a bit , the earth at the relay is just a permanent one is it ? ? If it is ...yes you could just add your own , would be interesting to see in a diagram where that earth goes to for further Diag
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The earth is a permanent one, I think. The man from AA diagnosed that when ignition is switched on a circuit is not being created to heat up the glow plugs. There was +ve feed when switched on but no earth to complete the circuit.
What I find strange is that everything else functions which I would not expect if there is a faulty earth connection. Maybe the wire has failed rather than the body/engine earth connection.

Would you know why there is a loud diesel knock noise since the starting problem? The noise eases off when engine upto temperature although the noise comes back when accelerating.

It would be good to see a wiring diagram.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Terry57

Seems like the earth is permanent. To make sure I break into the correct cable (earth) from the relay 5 pin connector (only 4 pins are used I have seen) would you know the colour of the earth (-ve) cable?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi Terry57

The wiring diagram is very useful and shows the other components that connect to the relay. I will check these connections next weekend.
I did not explain myself properly - apologies - I meant the actual wire colour in the engine compartment as i don't want to connect to the wrong wire when creating a new earth. Would you know the colour? If not, then I will try by process of elimination in checking each wire for continuity.

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No you did explain yourself properly :)

just look for wire M105 on the plug at the relay,that will be the earth.and connect your new earth to that same connection
As i said peugeot use a numbers system rather than colours
 

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Discussion Starter #15
update.

Worked on car yesterday (Saturday) checked for earth continuity and discovered that the earth is ok. After checking all 4 wires to the relay the problem seems to be with the +ve feed to the relay wired to/from ignition. Just had a look at ignition key area and its all beyond me.
History of problem - 2 weeks ago on a drive the engine started to make a loud diesel knocking noise. I turned off engine whilst driving and started again - has to do this a couple of times. Knocking noise then disappeared and engine ran fine. This has happened about 3 times over the last couple of years and turning engine off and on whilst driving on road cured it. maybe doing this has affected something in the ignition key?

Andrew.
 

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The barrel is unlikely to be the issue and although turning off then on cured the knock the ignition wont be the cause of the knock it does sound like a power supply issue check your double relay it will be brown or black usually near the battery
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have a -ve connection to the battery that does look suspect. Last night the engine did not turn over and it was due to a weak -ve battery connection. I'll have a check and get back . Cheers reliable 406
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Just had a look at the weak earth connection and a did quick fix. I used a jubilee clip to make a better connection. Turned engine over and still no power to glow plugs. The other earth wire to the battery looks ok however I will have to fit a proprietary connection - next week now. Looks like lifting the bonnet to make the temp glow plug heating connection will be had this week. Will leave feedback. Is the double relay the glow plug relay? This is on the opposite side to the battery in the engine compartment. I had changed the relay with one I pulled out of my retired 806 which was working at the time - over 2 years ago.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Feedback

Problem now sorted. It was the Engine Management Control Unit. I exchanged it with my spare donor 806 and it started and ran like a dream. I still have the loud (but not as loud now) diesel knock at startup. Knock goes away when engine upto running temp. Methinks this is due to the 'Choke' mechanism pumping more fuel in when engine cold. No different in this regard as before but I'll put up with that.
Thanks for all contributions and advice
 
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