[Dadgarage]

Got a 308 1.4 petrol (2008) that died while driving. Recovery numpty said Cam Belt tensioner loose!
1. not got a cam belt
2. timing chain not visible (especially without actually breaking open his tools or diag kit)
Just wanted to charge for the recovery. Dash said "Economy Mode". I tested with generic ODB tester - "camshaft sensor" pending. Checked wiring, got power etc. Changed senor but got the same code. Found Vacuum pump dog gear broken and oil leaking from pump. Replaced. Now, no reoccuring code when cranked but will not start. Tried Parc-Shunt fuse remove and this cleared "Eco Mode"
Petrol pump sounds like working
Cam shaft rotates when cranked
Battery putting out 11.7 volts
Car will not fire up - where to look next. Any ideas?? Thinking of buying in Planet Peugeot kit but cant help but think should be a simple fault!!

 

[WillNZ]

When it died, did it cut out instantly or did it start stumbling [missfiring/lose power] then die?

Main things to firstly TEST for [not sounds like working...!] in a petrol motor are spark and fuel.

Spark is normally easy. Also, remove all plugs and check colour and also see if they are wet with fuel or bone dry.

A proper fuel test in an injection motor not so easy as you need to verify pressure and flow. So you need a pressure gauge and a container/stopwatch for measuring flow. Or, if you had PP2000/diagbox, you could check this using live data while cranking. In the absence of pressure gauge/PP2000, you can check flow rate from pump meets spec. If it does, it suggests things might be ok with the fuel supply system, but this is not guaranteed.

You can verify the injectors are firing while cranking by using an automotive stethoscope [cheap on ebay] and listening to each one of them individually while cranking. They will click regularly while cranking if they are working.

If crank/cam sensors have failed, you will mostly not get any spark and fuel, so, if you dont find fuel and spark in the above testing, check both crank and cam sensors. As you have already changed the cam sensor with no effect, you would need to target the crank sensor. But the swapped out cam sensor may also be faulty, so dont rule it out..

If all of the above check out, you will need to check your cam timing.

 

[Dadgarage]

So pulled all plugs and seem in good condition, also appear wet. Checked for spark and no spark present.
Invested in PP2000/Lexia / Diagbox. Eventually managed to load it to PC and work it out. Only evident code is on BSI when I remove battery for recharge.although from what I can see via tinternet, this is normal and once cleared only reappears when remove battery. All else seemingly ok.
If crank senor (and others) faulty surely this should show on PP2000, although I know not where!!
Still no spark.

I will go play with crank sensor next but feel this should be evident on diagnostics if naff.

Any bright Pug owners encountered similar frustrating search for a spark?

 

[jimmymarsbar]

Your battery voltage of 11.7v - was that whilst cranking?

 

[Dadgarage]

I have since put a new battery on this but still would not start. However, the 11.7v was idle with ignition on but not running or cranking.

 

[reliable406]

Planet can do much more than read codes !

Go into parameters 1 parameters 2 and you will see lots of things that can be checked while cranking it will tell you if cam sensors are reading it will tell you cranking speed which tells you crank sensor is working

 

[Dadgarage]

So have been looking at parameters in PP2000. Sensors appear to be ok. Getting rpm change when cranking (CPS) and Oxygen / CAM value.
What I do not appear to get on cranking is Alternator excitation voltage (stays 0 as does the alternator charging voltage) and battery voltage drops from 12.8 to zero/ 10.7v

Would this indicate an alternator fault?
If so, would this prevent firing of spark?

Sorry to appear vague but once told all questions are good questions

 

[reliable406]

Alternator wont show anything till engine is running it wont stop a spark either

Key in ignition turn on turn off leave key in ignition open door does car warn you yes or no ?

 

[jimmymarsbar]

Replacing the battery could have contributed to the non-start if the old battery was disconnected incorrectly.

Do the quick test as reliable406 suggested, that'll confirm if the BSI is happy or not

 

[Dadgarage]

Yes it warns me with a series of bleeps. Also PP2000 parameters show BSI matched ok and no faults.

 

[reliable406]

Is engine ecu showing as unlocked ?

What you need to understand is not ALL faults will show a code and some fault codes will say 1 thing but mean another this is where knowledge of the engines helps

Most people on here are more used to diesels the parameters of a petrol engine are very different but it may be worth posting a screen shot of parameters 1 while cranking for us to see.

 

[Dadgarage]

I have attached some captured screens as suggested. Do these highlight anything you would dig deeper into?

 

[storeman]

Australian camera ??

 

[WillNZ]

Australian camera ??

I am in New Zealand so good for me...

In your first shot, the glaring bit is the voltage of 12v shown at just over 1000rpm i.e. above idle. I would have expected a voltage north of 13v, more like 13.6v-13.8v

It is quite possible your battery is weak/you have a bad power/ground connecton somewhere/alternator not charging properly etc, so, when you crank, there is insufficient supply to the electrics to get the car running.

I would check the whole charging circuit, along with ALL positive and ground connections. This would involve checking voltage at rest, while cranking and when running. Removing [not just looking at!], cleaning and replacing the positive/ground connections.

 

[reliable406]

Its not 1000 rpm its 183 rpm

12 volts is fine as its just cranking not running

The 1000 is what it wants to see injector pulse times look to be stable that suggests to me they are not working i would expect that to vary

 

[WillNZ]

Right... I saw the requiring engine speed figure.. Does it really want the motor to crank over at 1070rpm to start??? If so, the starter is failing miserably...

 

[reliable406]

No i think thats the target cold start idle speed but it will fire at 200rpm or so

 

[Dadgarage]

Sorry for the Ozzie style photos - missed that!

In desperation I have had this taken to a highly recommended local Motor Services guy who has just called to advise low compression issues. Possibly timing chain / tensioner.

He is looking further over weekend but could be a hefty strip down. Maybe more economical to swap the lump if it is!

Bloody cars, like women, can't live with them, can't live without them!