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Hi,

First time posting here, so take it easy on me.

I have a 2004 307 SW 1.6HDi (110), done 115k miles; which won't start. It cranks over quite nicely, but won't fire.

This has been a deteriorating problem. The car started to struggle with cold starts (When left for more than say 12hours), requiring just a little more effort to get going (maybe 4 or 5 turns). This got gradually worse, so I changed the battery thinking this would help. It made no difference. It got to the stage where the car would start eventually, but only after something like 20 odd turns. Sometimes stopping and waiting and having another go did it, but it never fired cleanly first time (It used to be much better). Once it got going, it would start comparatively easily when warm for the rest of the day.

Last time I went to use it, it wouldn't start at all, no matter how long it was cranked over. I plugged in PP2000 to check for codes and watch the live data while cranking. There were a couple of codes that have been there for a while, including the one about the EGR valve (Permanent) and one to do with turbo pressure (Intermittent). As I say, these have been there for a while and I think are only giving rise to a slight hesitation problem at low rpms. I intend to get them sorted, but have a more pressing issue now. The live data I think highlights the problem (Although if someone thinks the EGR can be related to starting problem, I be pleased to be corrected).

When cranking, the cam/can sync was OK and the rpm seemed sensible, at around 300rpm. However, the fuel pressure was right down low (Relatively anyway, I was shocked to read up on just how high pressure this all is) at around 90bar , the reference was 300+. On the final attempt the pressure was even as low as 70bar, but that could be because the battery was suffering by this stage.

I'm thinking of starting with the fuel filter as this seems to correlate with a gradual deterioration in starting; i.e. the filter was becoming increasingly blocked. It also seems to make sense that the car was seemingly normal when up and running. Aside from the slight hesitation at low rpm, power was as expected and mpg was good at around 55mpg. Given that the car has no low pressure fuel pump, my thinking was that when up and running, the HP pump is overcoming the fuel blockage as I assume it has more power when the engine is running to draw through the filter, than when it is just spinning on the starter.

Am I completely way of with this? Seems worthwhile changing the filter as it is an easy job and basically a service part anyway; it hasn't be touched for at least 20k.

After that though, I'm running a little short on ideas. I can't see how it can be a leak in the HP side of the system, as how would this not show as a problem of some kind when the engine is up and running and under high pressure? Also, if the HP pump was on its way out (Or now gone completely), why would this only manifest itself at cold start? Assuming the filter gives no joy, I was wondering whether it is just a lazy starter motor. To eliminate this though, I assume I can just get the battery fully charged and check the crank rpms against a reference value. Does anyone know what rpms I should expect to see when cranking, I don't think PP2000 shows this? I'm drawn to this slightly because I've only recently had the clutch and DMF changed out, so was wondering whether a dying DMF might have fowled the starter in some way, adding to a general laziness.

One other possible symptom, I noticed a buzzing sound coming from the engine bay when the ignition was on without the engine running. Not noticed it before, but then I haven't bothered to listen until now, but it definitely isn't the fan, more of a relay sound I think. This could of course be related to the A/C, which has an entirely different problem (This is my first Peugeot and I'm not loving it right at this moment) of a leak.

Sorry for the long post. Any help that you wise people can provide would be much appreciated.

On a slightly different note; these forums have been useful reading and I'd like to return the favour by offering access to my PP2000. How do I get added to that map or thread?

Cheers




John
 

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try squeezing the primer bulb a dozen times or more before attempting to start. While there *should* be enough fuel in the pump and rail to get towards cranking pressure, it *might* be syphoning back. If this helps then you need to check all the feed and return hose connections.
Beyond that I'd guess pump, but you might find it's the pressure-control valve leaking in which case that should be swappable on it's own.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for replying (And taking the time to read my essay!).

I have tried pumping the primer, quite a bit actually, but it didn't do anything. Should I expect to feel the pressure build in this (Such that it goes hard or something)? It isn't in the best place for doing this though and I can't recall what I felt; will have to try again. Is there anyway to bleed air from the system - or is this even necessary?

Is the pressure-control valve you refer to on the fuel pump? I assume this is how the ECU controls the pressure from the pump, i.e. when the engine is running at high RPM, the pump would over pressurize and so is released from this valve? I can sort of see how a leak here might only be a problem at start-up; because when the engine is running, there is enough pressure generation in the pump to overcome the losses in a very small leak. Having said that, I assume a leak would not be visible to the naked eye.

Do you have any idea what a normal cranking RPM is? I was getting something like 250 - 300rpm and I just wanted rule out the starter motor maybe not turning over fast enough to get the fuel pump spinning and building up sufficient pressure. At least it would be one less thing to focus on.

Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So my plan of starting with the fuel filter isn't such a bad one then?

I've sorted one out from the stealer......I'm not even going to mention how much it was except to say, a lot more than I can ever remember paying for a filter before.

Right, thanks for the help. Off to take battery out, recharge it, change the fuel filter, prime with the little pump and then fingers crossed.

Do people recommend using Easy Start or similar to get things going, or is that a big no-no with these engines?

Thanks again!
 

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So my plan of starting with the fuel filter isn't such a bad one then?

I've sorted one out from the stealer......I'm not even going to mention how much it was except to say, a lot more than I can ever remember paying for a filter before.

Right, thanks for the help. Off to take battery out, recharge it, change the fuel filter, prime with the little pump and then fingers crossed.

Do people recommend using Easy Start or similar to get things going, or is that a big no-no with these engines?

Thanks again!
No need for easy start , get into the tank aswell there might be a filter there , some of the other guys can correct me if not .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Emm, don't much fancy having to play around in the fuel tank. Can't imagine that is easy to get to (Is anything on this car though!). I might have to turn to Haynes to see how even get to it and whether there is a filter down there.

Thanks for the reply salster. I might be wrong, but I don't think my car has a low pressure pump in the tank.

Something has just occurred to me which I hope doesn't give everyone a 'head in hands moment'. There was another error code that came up on PP2000 which I forgot to mention; it is the one related to the fuel cap, which I think is fairly common problem with the magnet sensors. This has showed up before and never caused starting problems, but I thought I'd better mention it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
DPF is the same as FAP right?

So I guess it is the Diesel Cap error that throws up the Anti Pollution Fault on the MFD very occasionally. Probably should fix that, but as with A/C, I've got more pressing problems.

This car is not dissimilar to my wife; it has a constant list of demands (Mostly financial), only so many of which I can deal with at any one time. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em both, they are just very high maintenance. :(
 

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if its not a bosch injection system it won,t have a pump in tank, easy way to check is if it has a primer to bleed fuel system it won,t have a pump in tank
 
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Fuel rail pressure sensors give alot of trouble on this engine also. it doesn't mean the pump isin't making the 280bar cranking pressure.
Get the high pressure circuit checked also ie with a pressure testing tool.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Cheers mate, I've got the manual bulb primer, so I guess that answers it.

I've swapped out the fuel filter and definitely noticed a difference when manually priming than when doing it before, so fingers crossed (but not expecting much).

I have a problem though. Ive had to take the battery out to charge it (drained quite a bit while trying to start before). I used the 3 minute rule thing and made sure alarm was off by not arming and nt locking the doors. I've just realised that there is seemingly no way manually lock three of the doors.....am I missing something here?

Help appreciated as ever!


John
 
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Cheers mate, I've got the manual bulb primer, so I guess that answers it.

I've swapped out the fuel filter and definitely noticed a difference when manually priming than when doing it before, so fingers crossed (but not expecting much).

I have a problem though. Ive had to take the battery out to charge it (drained quite a bit while trying to start before). I used the 3 minute rule thing and made sure alarm was off by not arming and nt locking the doors. I've just realised that there is seemingly no way manually lock three of the doors.....am I missing something here?

Help appreciated as ever!


John
Put the battery back in i'm afraid to lock the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK, so I dropped the battery in this morning before heading off to work.

Took all night to charge the battery on my weak little charger. Luckily no one nicked anything out of the car while it was left overnight with the doors unlocked.

Couldn't resist turning it over, but no immediate luck. Didn't have time to hook up laptop to check parameters, but I'm not massively optimistic that I'll have any more luck tonight.

Before I put the engine cover back on, I had a little nose around the injectors and did notice that one of them looked a little oily/diesely around the HP fuel union. All of the other ones are clean, but this one looked like it could either be currently, or has previously been, leaking a little. This certainly wouldn't help.

I don't have the adaptor for torquing up these unions and frankly I'm not particularly inclined to be messing about with the high pressure side of things. I think I need an expert now to do some of the pressure checking and leak finding that has been suggested here.

Does anyone know a good mobile diesel specialist in Kent? Also, if it does turn out to be a leak, say at the injector union, can the HP fuel injector lines from the rail be replaced individually, or is a complete replacement of all HP lines and rail needed? Similarly, I gather that the pressure sensor can't be replaced without changing the whole rail (In case that is the problem), is this really true as it sounds like a pig of a job (and therefore costly in terms of labour).

Cheers
 

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because theres no pump in tank there is still a filter in tank and i have had one blocked before. so start in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Cheers Salster, that's one more thing to try this evening, when I should be at the pub or something :(

I've found a diesel fuel injection specialist, at practical towing distance from my place. Once I exhaust (no pun intended) my options tonight, I'll probably throw myself at his mercy.

On a positive note; whilst ringing around for mobile mechanics I spoke to one general mechanic bloke who admitted he would be struggling to take the diagnosis of the problem much further and recommended finding a diesel specialist. I thought this was a refreshing bit of honesty. He could so easily have taken on the job and started a 'change parts and hope' exercise (At my expense), which I can do myself and want to avoid.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #18
FIXED!

Hi, just a bit of a follow up to bring th thread to a close.

Couldn't find any probs on low pressure fuel side, filters etc. Didnt feel up to DiY leak off test, as i wasnt liekly to be up to fixing anything anywya, so took it to a diesel injection specialist.

He narrowed it down pretty quickly to one dodgy injector, massively passing too much fuel through in the leak off. Overhauled that and back running like a beauty.

Thanks for all you help, getting me back on th road. I'm now inspired to sort out the other two probs (airbag and aircon), so look out for these threads.

Cheers!
 

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I've got a problem of when I try to accelerate up a hill the car cuts out like its out of diesel.
Then I struggle to fire the car back up like it's trying to bring the diesel back through the system again.
Could that be the diesel filter or maybe the pump?
 
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