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Discussion Starter · #141 ·
I don’t know if this is just in my head now but I remember the tail light needed replaced in the car the last time when it wouldn’t start then I remember when I got it started the light was working again.

may justbe my head playing games with me
 

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The things I noticed are:
The BSI had an initialisation problem
The BSI recognises the key
It tried to sent (emission of) some encrypted data to the ECU
The BSI knows the ECU is locked

When you looked at the ECU immobiliser it said waiting for BSI but the BSI data is saying it sent encrypted data to ECU so there could be a communication problem between the two units may be a wiring problem. When the car started last time you were checking out some wiring I wonder if you moved a cable to the ECU that remade a bad connection.

I have found three ways to initialling the BSI. The last two require opening the window which I don't think you can do

From the Haynes Manual
In the second Note it says wait 15 minutes. I think they mean turn everything off and shut the door then wait 15 minutes before disconnecting the battery.

93001


From an internet search:
Procedure for Initialising the BSI
1. Disconnect the diagnostic tool and say short prayer.
2. Put the driver’s window down, lift the bonnet and ensure all
equipment is switched off.
3. Ensure all doors are closed and remove key from the
ignition.
4. Wait for 3 minutes, disconnect the vehicle battery and wait
15 seconds.
5. Reconnect the vehicle battery, wait a further 10 seconds (do
not open doors.)
6. Switch on the side lights through the driver's window.
7. Switch on the ignition and check system’s functionality.
8. Hold lock button on key down for 10 seconds.
9. Remove key open & close door & test central locking system
10. Start the engine and hope for the best.

YouTube video
 

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Hi Graeme,

I think the most significant error code you are getting is "F5FF: Unexpected re-initialisation fault coming from the BSI”. If you click on the item or + does it give you any more information? It sounds like the BSI has tried to re-initialise but found something wrong.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #144 ·
Hi Ian

I will run through they initialising procedures tomorrow after work. I will also check the diagbox to see if there is any more info when clicking the plus sign .

Agree with all you say above it’s like there is just one part missing to complete the unlock either it being a wire or down to the initialisation.

Thanks again

Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

I will run through they initialising procedures tomorrow after work. I will also check the diagbox to see if there is any more info when clicking the plus sign .

Agree with all you say above it’s like there is just one part missing to complete the unlock either it being a wire or down to the initialisation.

Thanks again

Graeme
This link may be relevant: Peugeot Partner ECM locked, no start. If you jump to the end of the discussion the guy found that it was a cable fault. It was interesting that he was using PP2000 and was unable to communicate with the ECU. I wonder if PP2000 communicates with the ECU via the BSM instead of via the CAN bus. That would explain why you didn't get a response from the ECU when you used PP2000 but did when you used Diagbox
 

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Discussion Starter · #146 ·
This link may be relevant: Peugeot Partner ECM locked, no start. If you jump to the end of the discussion the guy found that it was a cable fault. It was interesting that he was using PP2000 and was unable to communicate with the ECU. I wonder if PP2000 communicates with the ECU via the BSM instead of via the CAN bus. That would explain why you didn't get a response from the ECU when you used PP2000 but did when you used Diagbox
Hi Ian

I had a look at the post you linked and think it may be worth a check as I have been loosing water and have to top up the expansion tank. So wondering id the Temp sensor could be the problem would need to check the wiring diagram and see where voltage should be and which wire is ground.

I can get the windows down as i am able to take the car of economy mode using Diagbox so I can try all variations of BSI initialization.

I am now thinking i should head straight to that Temp Sensor and check it out before going thru the BSI initialization.

Funny enough i have notice a few talking about the Temp Sensor being a problem

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

I had a look at the post you linked and think it may be worth a check as I have been loosing water and have to top up the expansion tank. So wondering id the Temp sensor could be the problem would need to check the wiring diagram and see where voltage should be and which wire is ground.

I can get the windows down as i am able to take the car of economy mode using Diagbox so I can try all variations of BSI initialization.

I am now thinking i should head straight to that Temp Sensor and check it out before going thru the BSI initialization.

Funny enough i have notice a few talking about the Temp Sensor being a problem

Thanks Graeme
You may find that there are two temperature sensors. My car has two quite close together. When I had an intermittent overheating problem the main dealer replaced both. It turned out that the thermostat worked fine if the engine was cold when started but jammed if the engine was warm when restarted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #148 ·
You may find that there are two temperature sensors. My car has two quite close together. When I had an intermittent overheating problem the main dealer replaced both. It turned out that the thermostat worked fine if the engine was cold when started but jammed if the engine was warm when restarted.
I know mine has a temperature housing and there is a temp sensor right next to it.
Will have a look at the wiring when I get home from work and see if it’s showing one or two

thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
Hi Ian

Was a rush today when I go in from work so I headed straight the the thermostat was I would have time to do the bsi reset

I notice when checking the plug by back probing that with ignition on there was no voltage at any of the two pins. I also checked both for continuity to ground and nothing I’m wonder in I should of got any results on this ?

I think could be wrong but to check a thermostat is it not normally a resistance across both pins to check ?
I’m unsure what I should have got at the pins
If I should of got a volt feed one side and a ground the other side. Im sure I read in the post you shared that the ground wire was the problem and he had to run a new one from battery negative and connect on to it .
 

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Hi Ian

Was a rush today when I go in from work so I headed straight the the thermostat was I would have time to do the bsi reset

I notice when checking the plug by back probing that with ignition on there was no voltage at any of the two pins. I also checked both for continuity to ground and nothing I’m wonder in I should of got any results on this ?

I think could be wrong but to check a thermostat is it not normally a resistance across both pins to check ?
I’m unsure what I should have got at the pins
If I should of got a volt feed one side and a ground the other side. Im sure I read in the post you shared that the ground wire was the problem and he had to run a new one from battery negative and connect on to it .
I am not familiar with the thermostat control on the 207 my car has a basic thermostat. I think your thermostat may have a heater see New owner 2009 207 1.4 thermostat/temp sender question - French Car Forum . If this is the case you should get continuity at the two pins on the thermostat's socket. However, if it's open circuit the ECU should detect it and give you a fault code (P0597).
 

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Hi Graeme,

I remember you found an item which said code P2178 (normally a full related code) was being generated and it turned out to be a problem with the thermostat housing stopping the ECU from working properly. I tried to find this but couldn’t. I am fairly sure the only connection between the ECU and thermostat is the thermostat heater which only operates under some conditions. It is an antipollution device designed to open the thermostat early. I guess if it shorted out it may stop the ECU from working but it's not normally powered up.

As far as the no start goes everything is pointing to a communication problem between the BSI and ECU.

In the case of the water leak is there any sign of a leak around the thermostat housing? If all the hoses and their connections are in good order I would suspect the water pump. On my 307 they used to replace the water pump every four years when they changed the timing belt. I was lucky when my first timing belt was changed. They also found the water pump was leaking so were able to charge part of the cost on the extended warrantee.
 

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Hi Ian

Was a rush today when I go in from work so I headed straight the the thermostat was I would have time to do the bsi reset

I notice when checking the plug by back probing that with ignition on there was no voltage at any of the two pins. I also checked both for continuity to ground and nothing I’m wonder in I should of got any results on this ?

I think could be wrong but to check a thermostat is it not normally a resistance across both pins to check ?
I’m unsure what I should have got at the pins
If I should of got a volt feed one side and a ground the other side. Im sure I read in the post you shared that the ground wire was the problem and he had to run a new one from battery negative and connect on to it .
A couple of other things to add to my earlier post.
The thermostat control power comes from Fuse F10. You have already found F10 is only powered when the engine is cranked. Even if it were cranked there is unlikely to be power at the thermostat as it's only powered under certain conditions.

It is a bit surprising one of the pins on the thermostat is not ground but you have already checked the ground point MC10 from the ECU so I doubt there is an issue. Unplugging the thermostat shouldn't stop the car from starting.

The wiring diagrams you have already posted show three wires between the ECU and the BSI. Two are the CAN bus but I don't know what the third 7842 is. We know the CAN bus is working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #153 ·
Hi Ian

It was the coolant temp sensor I was checking last night (my mistake on the post above ) not the thermostat I think the thermostat is in the thermostat housing where as the coolant temp sensor is right beside the thermostat housing.

I also found wiring diagram the looks like the BSI and ECU have a connection that goes thru the ABS which is located in behind the passengers front wheel so I’m wondering if that could be the problem as you say the other connection is thru the can network.

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

It was the coolant temp sensor I was checking last night (my mistake on the post above ) not the thermostat I think the thermostat is in the thermostat housing where as the coolant temp sensor is right beside the thermostat housing.

I also found wiring diagram the looks like the BSI and ECU have a connection that goes thru the ABS which is located in behind the passengers front wheel so I’m wondering if that could be the problem as you say the other connection is thru the can network.

Thanks Graeme
With temperature sensor I understand that the main problem is if there is a lot of pressure in the cooling system they leak water. When I had my problem you could see some white deposits where water leaked out of the sensor.

Isn't the ABS on the CAN bus? I would try the BSI reset again following the window open instructions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #155 ·
From what I seen last night when looking at the wiring diagram you had the 2 can bus wires then a additional wire.

I’ll do the window Bsi rest tonight when I get home from work regarding the temperature sensor would you expect a power feed and ground to be going to this ?
 

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From what I seen last night when looking at the wiring diagram you had the 2 can bus wires then a additional wire.

I’ll do the window Bsi rest tonight when I get home from work regarding the temperature sensor would you expect a power feed and ground to be going to this ?
The CAN bus should do most of the data transfer but I don't know what the third wire does.

I think you find the temperature sensor is a thermistor. They usually have a very high resistance e.g. 10kOhm.
 

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I think you find the temperature sensor is a thermistor. They usually have a very high resistance e.g. 10kOhm.
If the temperature sensor is a thermistor you may find a small voltage between the two pins. Thermistors change resistance with temperature so the circuit will be measuring resistance and may not be connected to ground.
 

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Hi Graeme,

If after you re-initialise the BSI the car doesn't start I think it would be worth looking at wire 7842.

Peugeot number their wires via function. They are usually four digits with the first two digits describing the function. There is a listing of the wire function but some are missing for example 90 appears to be reserved for the CAN bus but it's not listed. Similarly 78 is not listed but I have found the Pin out for a Peugeot ECU and it listed as 7842 as Remote Control Wake-up Information. Given that 7842 links the BSI and ECU I suspect this applies to 7842 wire in your car as well. Hence, it would be worth checking the continuity between Pin 10 of 40V NR - BSI and Pin 19 of 53V NR - ECU. Given that one connector is inside the car and the other in the engine compartment you may need a length of wire to do the test or if you leave the connector on and find that there is some voltage between the pin and ground you could see if it's the same at both ends but it's more likely to a signal so you may not measure a voltage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #159 ·
Hi Graeme,

If after you re-initialise the BSI the car doesn't start I think it would be worth looking at wire 7842.

Peugeot number their wires via function. They are usually four digits with the first two digits describing the function. There is a listing of the wire function but some are missing for example 90 appears to be reserved for the CAN bus but it's not listed. Similarly 78 is not listed but I have found the Pin out for a Peugeot ECU and it listed as 7842 as Remote Control Wake-up Information. Given that 7842 links the BSI and ECU I suspect this applies to 7842 wire in your car as well. Hence, it would be worth checking the continuity between Pin 10 of 40V NR - BSI and Pin 19 of 53V NR - ECU. Given that one connector is inside the car and the other in the engine compartment you may need a length of wire to do the test or if you leave the connector on and find that there is some voltage between the pin and ground you could see if it's the same at both ends but it's more likely to a signal so you may not measure a voltage.
Hi Ian

Tried the BSI Re-initialize (window down version) and no luck still have a ECU Lock

I will try and check the continuity between Pin 10 of 40V NR - BSI and Pin 19 of 53V NR. my volt meter cables should be long enough but it will be Friday before I can get to this and try it (Working late tomorrow).

This is the wire I was talking about that goes between the BSI and the ECU with the Can Network that i seen on the wiring diagram below. I read above that you say this is a Remote control wake up cable so finger crossed it could be this.

93038



Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

Tried the BSI Re-initialize (window down version) and no luck still have a ECU Lock

I will try and check the continuity between Pin 10 of 40V NR - BSI and Pin 19 of 53V NR. my volt meter cables should be long enough but it will be Friday before I can get to this and try it (Working late tomorrow).

This is the wire I was talking about that goes between the BSI and the ECU with the Can Network that i seen on the wiring diagram below. I read above that you say this is a Remote control wake up cable so finger crossed it could be this.

View attachment 93038


Thanks Graeme
The interesting thing is that the diagram shows wire 7842 is spliced (E784). Your wiring data may show where that spice is. I am not sure how the spice is implemented but it could be an inline plug and socket so it would be worth looking for and checking.
 
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