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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
I don't know if you need to crank the engine to get 12V at Pin 3. There would be no harm in having 12V at Pin 3 with just the ignition on and there are other 12volt lines feeding the ECU. The simplest thing is to check with the ignition on. If there is no reading then try cracking the engine.

I am not sure why you were getting continued to ground at Pin 3. However, if Pin 3 was at 12 Volts it may read 0 Ohms if the meter was on the Ohms range. While it should be avoided most multimeters seem to be designed to survive a small voltage when using the Ohms range.

The way ignition coils work is:
12 Volts is initially connected across the primary winding of the coil (pins 1 and 3) and then switched off. If the switch was perfect (switched in zero time) it would create a infinite voltage across the coil's primary and secondary. In practice real switches take a finite time to break the current but still generate a very high voltage across the primary and secondary windings. Transistors can switch a lot faster than the old mechanical points so electronic ignitions usually produce a stronger spark. The high voltage across the primary was a problem because it used to burn the points so a capcaitor was placed across the points to reduce the primaries voltage.

Some manufacture put the transistor switch in the coil pack while Peugeot appear to have it in the ECU.
So would you say my next step is to check pin 3 for 12v ?
If not there when ignition is on the check whilst cranking.
 

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So would you say my next step is to check pin 3 for 12v ?
If not there when ignition is on the check whilst cranking.
I would be interested to know if there is voltage at pin 3 but I would be inclined try out your new spark plug tester first. If you are getting a spark then the voltage pin 3 is not important.

I remember you found that the car started after you worked on the 8 pin lift motor sensor. I was never sure if this was a just a coincidence or not but I guess it's worth a look.
 

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I just noticed something else on the wiring diagram it shows Pin 3 of the coils packs link through the ECU to Fuse 10 so you are right there will be no voltage at pin 3 of the coil pack unless the engine is cranked.

I remember noting when I looked at the PFSI diagram and your previous voltage measurements the output of fuse 10 or 5 had to be taken to ground to get the 12Volts you measured at Pin 1 of 28V GR when the car wasn't cracked. This means you will get continuity to ground when the engine is not cranked at Pin 3 of the coil pack. I thought this was a bit odd at the time but assumed it was correct. Pin 1 of 28V GR is not used on your car but it is used to power the fuel tank heater in diesel cars so they may want is running before the car is started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
Hi Ian

Checked pin 3 today and 12.6v on initial switch on of the ignition for a couple of seconds then 0v then 11.09v when cranking.

Check for spark also with spark tester. No spark at all 4 plugs.

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

Checked pin 3 today and 12.6v on initial switch on of the ignition for a couple of seconds then 0v then 11.09v when cranking.

Check for spark also with spark tester. No spark at all 4 plugs.

Thanks Graeme
This is very puzzling. The things that normally stop the spark are a faulty crankshaft sensor or the immobiliser.
I know you have replaced the crankshaft sensor. If the ECU is still locked by the immobiliser the fuel pump will be disabled as well.

Given that two ECU codes will not clear it suggests there is something not quite right with the ECU. We know the ECU’s supply voltages and grounds are correct.I think we need to look at the diagnostics again. My understanding is:
Diagbox sees the Engine ECU but it will not clear two codes P0562 and P2178.
Imbedded PP2000 can’t see the ECU. (perhaps PP2000 doesn’t support your ECU)

I think this is how you should be able to see if the immobiliser is unlocked using Diagbox:
Select
Fault finding
Global Test
Engine ECU
Standard Parameter Measurements
Vehicle Immobilisation Information
This may help
It initially looks at the BSI but then looks at the Engine ECU – Standard Parameter Measurements and you can see Vehicle Immobilisation Information in the menu.

BTW when you were measuring continuity to ground on Pin 3 of the coil pack I think the path was through one of the devices connected to fuse 10 or 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #126 ·
This is very puzzling. The things that normally stop the spark are a faulty crankshaft sensor or the immobiliser.
I know you have replaced the crankshaft sensor. If the ECU is still locked by the immobiliser the fuel pump will be disabled as well.

Given that two ECU codes will not clear it suggests there is something not quite right with the ECU. We know the ECU’s supply voltages and grounds are correct.I think we need to look at the diagnostics again. My understanding is:
Diagbox sees the Engine ECU but it will not clear two codes P0562 and P2178.
Imbedded PP2000 can’t see the ECU. (perhaps PP2000 doesn’t support your ECU)

I think this is how you should be able to see if the immobiliser is unlocked using Diagbox:
Select
Fault finding
Global Test
Engine ECU
Standard Parameter Measurements
Vehicle Immobilisation Information
This may help
It initially looks at the BSI but then looks at the Engine ECU – Standard Parameter Measurements and you can see Vehicle Immobilisation Information in the menu.

BTW when you were measuring continuity to ground on Pin 3 of the coil pack I think the path was through one of the devices connected to fuse 10 or 5.
Hi Ian

Will connect the diagbox tomorrow again and have a look

I found this page tonight whilst searching about my problem this person has had the exact same pariblem and it ended up being the immobiliser .

FIXED Crank no start, no spark - Page 3 - ScannerDanner Forum - SCANNERDANNER - Results from #34

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

Will connect the diagbox tomorrow again and have a look

I found this page tonight whilst searching about my problem this person has had the exact same pariblem and it ended up being the immobiliser .

FIXED Crank no start, no spark - Page 3 - ScannerDanner Forum - SCANNERDANNER - Results from #34

Thanks Graeme
That was an interesting link with the same confusion over whether the power transistor was in the coil pack or ECU.

It would make a lot of sense if the ECU was "confused" but unfortunately they didn't say how they cleared it. I would have thought reconnecting the battery would clear a problem like that. My understanding (based on the Haynes manual for my car) is that before you remove the battery you have to wait for the BSI to go to sleep (on my car the odometer display turns off which takes about about 3 minutes if you don't touch anything or open or close a door) and when you reconnect the battery you should wake the BSI (e.g. turning the side lights on or opening the drivers door) and then leave the ignition on for 1 minute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #128 ·
That was an interesting link with the same confusion over whether the power transistor was in the coil pack or ECU.

It would make a lot of sense if the ECU was "confused" but unfortunately they didn't say how they cleared it. I would have thought reconnecting the battery would clear a problem like that. My understanding (based on the Haynes manual for my car) is that before you remove the battery you have to wait for the BSI to go to sleep (on my car the odometer display turns off which takes about about 3 minutes if you don't touch anything or open or close a door) and when you reconnect the battery you should wake the BSI (e.g. turning the side lights on or opening the drivers door) and then leave the ignition on for 1 minute.
Hi Ian

yeah agree was a interesting post without telling us the key to solving it.
I was thinking say it is the ECU that’s locked from the BSI could this of happened with the battery voltage dropping ?
That being the reason for the P0562 code .

As I remember originally when the problem first happened that car just cut out whilst my partner was driving but I’m thinking that may of happened due to low battery and maybe cause the ECU lock.

Then this time same thing

So I may still have a alternator problem that’s causing the initial cutout but then the ECU lock is causeing the no start

what do you think

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian

yeah agree was a interesting post without telling us the key to solving it.
I was thinking say it is the ECU that’s locked from the BSI could this of happened with the battery voltage dropping ?
That being the reason for the P0562 code .

As I remember originally when the problem first happened that car just cut out whilst my partner was driving but I’m thinking that may of happened due to low battery and maybe cause the ECU lock.

Then this time same thing

So I may still have a alternator problem that’s causing the initial cutout but then the ECU lock is causeing the no start

what do you think

Thanks Graeme
Yes I agree I suspect there was something wrong in the alternator which pulled the excitation line from the ECU down.

I read items where the BSI/ECU needs resetting. The procedure is basically as I described - Wait for the BSI to go to sleep. Disconnect and reconnect the battery. Open the car door and turn the ignition on for 60 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #130 ·
Yes I agree I suspect there was something wrong in the alternator which pulled the excitation line from the ECU down.

I read items where the BSI/ECU needs resetting. The procedure is basically as I described - Wait for the BSI to go sleep. Discount and reconnect the battery. Open the car door and turn the ignition on for 60 seconds.
Hi Ian what I will say is I haven’t been follow any set procedure when taking the battery in and out for recharging.

I will be going out to car soon and I’ll see if there is a lock.

I take it if there is just follow the procedure above and hopefully the lock will unlock
One of the key things leave the car door open for the minute with ignition on
Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian what I will say is I haven’t been follow any set procedure when taking the battery in and out for recharging.

I will be going out to car soon and I’ll see if there is a lock.

I take it if there is just follow the procedure above and hopefully the lock will unlock
One of the key things leave the car door open for the minute with ignition on
Thanks Graeme
I don't think it matters about the door. The procedure a lot of people follow is to open the driver's door window and close the door. Once the battery is connected you then lean-in and turn the side lights on to wake the BSI. Given your car is in economy mode you won't be able to open the window but with Peugeots opening the door also wakes the BSI. In fact the Haynes manual doesn't tell you to open the window. Leaving the ignition on for 60 seconds is a Haynes recommendation and I am not sure it's necessary but there is no harm in doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #132 ·
I don't think it matters about the door. The procedure a lot of people follow is to open the driver's door window and close the door. Once the battery is connected you then lean-in and turn the side lights on to wake the BSI. Given your car is in economy mode you won't be able to open the window but with Peugeots opening the door also wakes the BSI. In fact the Haynes manual doesn't tell you to open the window. Leaving the ignition on for 60 seconds is a Haynes recommendation and I am not sure it's necessary but there is no harm in doing it.
Bingo looks like we are getting somewhere

92980
 

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Discussion Starter · #135 ·
Hi Ian
just back in
I have opened car and lifted bonnet

I’ll wait the 15 mins the disconnect battery and wait a further 5 mins

Then reconnect and with car door open I’ll put ignition on and leave for 1 min

I’ll the reconnect the diagbox and see if unlock has changed.

Does this sound about right ?

Thanks Graeme
 

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Hi Ian
just back in
I have opened car and lifted bonnet

I’ll wait the 15 mins the disconnect battery and wait a further 5 mins

Then reconnect and with car door open I’ll put ignition on and leave for 1 min

I’ll the reconnect the diagbox and see if unlock has changed.

Does this sound about right ?

Thanks Graeme
yes

Do you have a spare key to try as well
 

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Discussion Starter · #140 · (Edited)
I think the key probably okay because it's passing the beep test but just incase It might be worth checking the keys battery.
Hi Ian
I left car today for 30 mins then disconnected the battery for about 40min

reconnected waited 30 secs the turned ignition with car door open for over 1 min and reconnected diagbox and no change

hi have the following errors on the bsi
92985

I also went into the immobiliser page on the bsi and have the following results
92986

92987

I also now have the following error codes on the ECU

92988


Im thinking there is more to this now than just awakening the bsi unit.

what do you think ?

I also came across this in a post and I have a tail light out wondering if there could be a earth problem there

92991


Thanks Graeme
 
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