[no10ranger]

Hi guys looking for a bit more advice please..

My Partners car has a Crank but not start problem on her Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport 2009. She Works as a Homecarer and drove to work last week and on the way into one of her clients she entered the car park and the car stalled and wouldn't restart.

Since towing the car home last week I have checked a few things going from advice on here below are some of the things I have checked.

1. Car does beep when key if left in the ignition after trying to start and opening door
2. Didn't get any error codes with my cheap diagnostic tool. (which has helped in the past when coil pack went)
3. Car Battery is at 12.6 v when check with volt meter
4 I checked both camshaft sensors by checking for 5v feed and ground which seemed to be good then checking for voltage when checking signal wire using back probing method and sensor connected, and got 12v when putting a socket in front of sensor .
5. Notice no movement on the Rev Counter when trying to start so I have replaced the Crankshaft sensor.
this was located at the bellhousing where the engine meets the gear box. Does this need to be a set at a set distance from crank as I probably have it a few mm away from it and was just a thought incase it needs to be closer.


I then tried starting the car with no joy and noticed Rev counter still sits on 0 when trying to start I though I would of seen some sort of movement when trying to start. is this normally the case?


I then moved on to the spark plugs and I must admit weren't in the best of conditions and were wet with fuel.

I replaced all four with new Spark plugs and tried again Still no Start.

So I removed each one at a time to check for Sparking an this is what I see as a problem.

When trying to start car it turns over and every say 10 sec you get a bbbbrrrrrr as if it's going to catch but it doesn't

I have notice when the car does this, this is the only time the spark plugs sparks I would expect a spark more frequent am I correct in saying this ?

What could be causing the Spark Plug to be doing this ? Anyone any ideas I also notice when I took the spark plugs back out to to check each for a spark that you could smell fuel from each so I think fuel is getting to them and my problem is more not having a frequent spark.

Also notice when checking the spark plugs due to the oil cap being off I can see the cam shaft rotating so would say the timing chain is ok.

Sorry for the big post but trying to cover all information I know as of yet.

Thanks in advance for you help it really id appreciated

Graeme

 

[dcgpx]

I still think you’ve got flooded chambers. Maybe try leaving spark plugs out overnight to let it evaporate most out.

It’s the nearly catching that makes me think this.

Seems you’ve checked most common.

Have you def set gap correctly as these are very critical on Peugeot’s I’ve found


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[no10ranger]

I still think you’ve got flooded chambers. Maybe try leaving spark plugs out overnight to let it evaporate most out.

It’s the nearly catching that makes me think this.

Seems you’ve checked most common.

Have you def set gap correctly as these are very critical on Peugeot’s I’ve found


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Hi thanks for your reply again

Do you know what the gap setting is for my car ? I thought the plugs would be set at this as the guy in the motor factors asked for the car Reg when selling them.

Also Regarding the flooding is there any other way to do this or is it leaving it over night the only option ?

How will I know when I can rule the flooding out ?

Thanks

 

[no10ranger]

Also thought it was strange that the car nearly started when the spark appeared and I didn't have a spark until then would of thought I should have a more regular spark

 

[dcgpx]

Spark gap depends on engine type, normally 0.8mm or 0.9mm sometimes on 16v

I’d go for 0.8mm as too wide and you’d lose spark power.

As for the reducing flooding, not really any quick way not in these temps unless you’ve a warm garage.

just remember when you try after letting fuel evaporate and checking gap, floor accelerator to stop more fuel going in.

Only try for a few seconds at a time so don’t cook starter.

These are exact symptoms my sister has for 2 days and above is what I did to get it going.

Worth trying as not many options left other than get a computer onto it and see exactly what’s happening or not as the case maybe


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[no10ranger]

Spark gap depends on engine type, normally 0.8mm or 0.9mm sometimes on 16v

I’d go for 0.8mm as too wide and you’d lose spark power.

As for the reducing flooding, not really any quick way not in these temps unless you’ve a warm garage.

just remember when you try after letting fuel evaporate and checking gap, floor accelerator to stop more fuel going in.

Only try for a few seconds at a time so don’t cook starter.

These are exact symptoms my sister has for 2 days and above is what I did to get it going.

Worth trying as not many options left other than get a computer onto it and see exactly what’s happening or not as the case maybe


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Hi I have located someone selling a PP2000. Was hope to solve without putting out on this but I know if needs must that ill need to pick it up.

I take it the PP2000 will detect the problem even though the Car isn't starting.

Thanks

 

[dcgpx]

Is the copy of PP2000 inc the PC ? As the software can be downloaded free and there’s a guide on the site. It’s the PC that costs and best done on Win XP

As for it guaranteed to find the fault? No but it’s extremely more a yes than no if you understand what it’s telling you .

You could though look at the PP2000 map on the forum and see if anyone’s near you who could help.


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[no10ranger]

Is the copy of PP2000 inc the PC ? As the software can be downloaded free and there’s a guide on the site. It’s the PC that costs and best done on Win XP

As for it guaranteed to find the fault? No but it’s extremely more a yes than no if you understand what it’s telling you .

You could though look at the PP2000 map on the forum and see if anyone’s near you who could help.


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No its just the unit but comes with the disc. I have a copy of XP and can setup a vitual machine to run it.

Thanks

 

[dcgpx]

In that case go for it. PP2000 is great once you get used to it

Try the overnight thing first and see how it goes


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[no10ranger]

In that case go for it. PP2000 is great once you get used to it

Try the overnight thing first and see how it goes


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Spark Plugs are out I'll check the gap with gauges tomorrow in work.

If it is a flooded engine what could be causing this could it be a faulty injector releasing to much fuel or would the engine still run if that was the case. Do you think the flooding could be caused by the cold mornings and the car increasing the amount of fuel if so again how can you stop this from happening.

Thanks


.

 

[stripe88]

can you hear the fuel pump prime on ignition (put your ear on rear seat and listen)
sparks should fire about 1/2-1 second when turning it over.
Does the engine sound wrong turning it over, eg turning over faster than normal, this could be a slipped belt/chain and will often give a splutter like it wants to start, a compression tester is handy to check for valve damage.

 

[no10ranger]

can you hear the fuel pump prime on ignition (put your ear on rear seat and listen)
sparks should fire about 1/2-1 second when turning it over.
Does the engine sound wrong turning it over, eg turning over faster than normal, this could be a slipped belt/chain and will often give a splutter like it wants to start, a compression tester is handy to check for valve damage.

Hi thanks for the reply

I wouldn't say spark is every 1/2 to 1 second more like 4-5 seconds and that's when it attempts to start. I changed Crankshaft sensor yesterday but got feeling I haven't set at correct distance from fly wheel as I read last night on some cars it has to be a set distance known as the air gap, would this be the same for Peugeot ?

I will give what dcgpx said above but my gut still says because my Plugs aren't sparking as frequent this could be my problem.

It is a timing chain that is on my model and I noticed the front cam was turning yesterday when i was checking the plugs for sparks as I had the oil cap off so I know the chain isn't broken.

Fuel pump is priming as I can here it when turning the ignition and could smell the fuel of the fresh spark plugs that were put in yesterday.

Thanks Graeme

 

[no10ranger]

With ignition on i noticed the battery light is flashing when i check voltage its at 12.4V and when turning over i have jump lead connected to my car so i don't drain the battery totally.

 

[no10ranger]

Hi

I have now recently managed to get my Diagbox Connected to my car it was the Can bus network was shorted and was stopping my Diagbox connecting to the car but with great advice on I managed to get it sorted so I am now back to my original problem being Crank but no start.

When connected my Diagbox is giving me a error P0368 which points to the Exhaust side Camshaft sensor which i have ordered and will replace but i have also been told it could be the timing chain or the VTI Solenoid.

Once Changing the Camshaft Sensor if it doesn't start I will look towards these two but have also been told that if the timing change skipped a tooth the car would still start but be rough so what the best way to check that the line up is ok before spending the money on a timing chain kit when that might not be the problem. Also is there a way to check the solenoid again before I change it and would the solenoid cause the issue i have at the spark plug where im getting a spark every 5-6 second as to every 0.5-1 second.

Thanks

 

[Ian M Davis]

Hi thanks for the reply

I wouldn't say spark is every 1/2 to 1 second more like 4-5 seconds and that's when it attempts to start.

Thanks Graeme

I was thinking about your coils packs, which you mentioned on your other thread and thought I would try to work out what the trigger frequency would be. I looked on the Internet for typical crank speeds and found the figures of 50 to 100 rpm for a petrol engine. This would correspond to a trigger frequency of 0.4 and 0.8Hz respectively or a spark every 2.4 and 1.2 seconds respectively.

I then remembered your comment about the spark rate being about 1 every 5 seconds which sounds too slow. Do you know your crank speed? Could there be a connection problem to the starting motor causing it to run slow.

 

[no10ranger]

I was thinking about your coils packs, which you mentioned on your other thread and thought I would try to work out what the trigger frequency would be. I looked on the Internet for typical crank speeds and found the figures of 50 to 100 rpm for a petrol engine. This would correspond to a trigger frequency of 0.4 and 0.8Hz respectively or a spark every 2.4 and 1.2 seconds respectively.

I then remembered your comment about the spark rate being about 1 every 5 seconds which sounds too slow. Do you know your crank speed? Could there be a connection problem to the starting motor causing it to run slow.

Hi

Not sure of my crank speed but could have a look I'm not sure if my Diagbox will give me this information.

My plan was to check the wiring to the coil packs and see all is ok as I'm lead to believe the signal wire test on the doc you gave me a link to last night gets you to check the Hz value.

Also if it was the starter would this of gave me the original cut out when the engine was running ?

Can see why it would be the starter with car not starting but I'm always drawn to why it cut out in the first place.

Thanks

 

[Ian M Davis]

Hi

Not sure of my crank speed but could have a look I'm not sure if my Diagbox will give me this information.

My plan was to check the wiring to the coil packs and see all is ok as I'm lead to believe the signal wire test on the doc you gave me a link to last night gets you to check the Hz value.

Also if it was the starter would this of gave me the original cut out when the engine was running ?

Can see why it would be the starter with car not starting but I'm always drawn to why it cut out in the first place.

Thanks

On some cars the main 12V connection goes via the starter motor.

 

[Ian M Davis]

On some cars the main 12V connection goes via the starter motor.

Hi

Not sure of my crank speed but could have a look I'm not sure if my Diagbox will give me this information.

A laser tachometer is another way to check the crank speed. I bought one of these last year.

 

[no10ranger]

On some cars the main 12V connection goes via the starter motor.

Hi

So do recon if there is a problem with the 12v coming from the starter that could cause a cutout (stall) scenario ?

If the 12v does come from the starter.

Thanks

 

[no10ranger]

A laser tachometer is another way to check the crank speed. I bought one of these last year. View attachment 92118

Hi

Got on coming tomorrow

Thanks