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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all!
I've got a 206 GTI HDI which suddenly died the other week, I was driving, got a slight 'hiccup' when driving, which I thought was just because it was cold, when I got to the traffic lights at the top of my road, I pressed the A/C button, the car cut out (all electrics went, engine cut out) and then resumed after a second, then did it again and once more all came back again ( I didn't need to turn the key again, all just came back) and then it cut out again for a final time and nothing returned since. The car will turn over, but not fire.
I've been messing with it since getting it towed home and found that turning the key one click sometimes produces a 'clicking' from the BSI unit with the ESP and headlight adjustment light flashing in time with this clicking, the top LED that has the in-car door locking button and hazard button flashes, I found that the side lights stay on without being switched on for some reason and only go out if I disconnect the battery... The car seems to have just gone nuts! I did manage a couple of times to get the dash readout back with a 'bong' sound - I believe I did this by having the passenger door open then shutting it and turning the ignition to off, but it won't always do it.

Things I have done :
ECU was remapped by HDI Tuning - I ordered another which was 'unlocked' and the symptoms are near on the same
BSI was checked by BBA Remen and that was fine
Fuse box - I bought a replacement which matched the Siemens unit model number and didn't solve it
battery charged back up as I drained it trying to crank the engine, also tried the battery from my 406 Coupe which is fine and bigger , no change.
Checked over as many fuses as I can find which are : BSI ones, engine fuse box, 'Maxi' fuses under the fuse box and the smaller unit towards the rear of the engine bay by the turret.

What else could possibly be going on here guys? Surely this car shouldn't be driving fine one day, then dead?
One last thing, when I filled the tank with diesel, I went to reverse out of the filling station and it cut out, thinking nothing of it, I started the engine again and drove normally, that was probably a week before this incident that killed it completely. I haven't had the car long but it's already seeming like a real wrong'n . I have a link to some of the going ons which I put on Youtube ...

Thanks!
 

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I may be barking up a wrong tree here, I would try replacing the relay for the ECU/BSI (within item PFS-1) there appears to be one single relay which appears to me might be a power relay. I think it's located in the engine compartment fuse box possibly under the BSI or near to it (not sure).

Anyway, this attachment might be more helpful than my commentary.
 

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I think you are on the right track looking at the BSI. The BSI controls everything except the engine.

These sort of faults can be caused by bad earths. Therefore, I would check MC10, MC20 and MC22 - see attachment. I think MC10 is quite difficult to get to because the headlight is likely to be in the way.
 

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Could also be a break in the loom. You really need to get Peugeot planet diagnostics to see what is going on, what is powering up and what isn’t
 

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Could also be a break in the loom. You really need to get Peugeot planet diagnostics to see what is going on, what is powering up and what isn’t
The two main power lines to the BSI come the maxi-fuse box which is under the engine fuse box that was replaced and should go to a large two pin plug on the BSI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you all for your suggestions so far. That green relay under the maxi fuses did raise a question mark for me but I assumed it was a fan control relay! D'oh! When I fitted the other ECU I bought, I believe that relay was 'ticking' or at the very least something around that general area. I would have put good money on the ECU being dead or BSI 1 under the dash but it seems that isnt the case so if the relay isn't to blame then I guess it must be as said here, some wiring branching off from the BSI.
When I did get the dash back, which was perhaps once or twice but went out again if any other 'load' was applied (opening of door, turning of key, pressing of any buttons) I did have my correct mileage read so assuming the ECU was at least talking to the dash? Or is that all stored in the cluster? I'm so used to 205's that this whole electrical assistance for everything is far beyond me haha!
 

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I am not sure why you think the BSI (BSI1) is okay. It or some of its cabling is most likely the cause of your problem. I think clicking relay is more likely to be a symptom of the fault rather than the cause.

I hadn't realised you tried to change the ECU. Even if the ECU was faulty changing it wouldn't work. The ECU and BSI are matched. It is possible to fit a blank ECU but it will need programming. The simplest thing is to get a ECU kit from an identical donor car which consists of an ECU, BSI and ignition switch with key. All the car's electronics are connected by a bus. The ECU and BSI are the two main computers on that bus. This an over simplification but basically the ECU runs the engine and the BSI controls almost everything else.

As Jonathanh suggest it would be worth investing in a Peugeot Diagnostic tool: Lexia 3 with Planet (PP2000) software. There are a lot good low cost clones with full chip sets on the market.

I think you may benefit from watching this video. At the start the guy describes a fault very much like yours. It will also give you an idea what the Peugeot diagnostic tool can do.

The car's milage is stored in two places the cluster and either BSI or ECU (can't remember which).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am not sure why you think the BSI (BSI1) is okay. It or some of its cabling is most likely the cause of your problem. I think clicking relay is more likely to be a symptom of the fault rather than the cause.

I hadn't realised you tried to change the ECU. Even if the ECU was faulty changing it wouldn't work. The ECU and BSI are matched. It is possible to fit a blank ECU but it will need programming. The simplest thing is to get a ECU kit from an identical donor car which consists of an ECU, BSI and ignition switch with key. All the car's electronics are connected by a bus. The ECU and BSI are the two main computers on that bus. This an over simplification but basically the ECU runs the engine and the BSI controls almost everything else.

As Jonathanh suggest it would be worth investing in a Peugeot Diagnostic tool: Lexia 3 with Planet (PP2000) software. There are a lot good low cost clones with full chip sets on the market.

I think you may benefit from watching this video. At the start the guy describes a fault very much like yours. It will also give you an idea what the Peugeot diagnostic tool can do.

The car's milage is stored in two places the cluster and either BSI or ECU (can't remember which).
Sorry yeah, I should have been clearer about that; the BSI was sent off to BBA Reman on eBay, it wasn't faulty when they checked it over. The ECU (original from the car) was sent off to HDI Tuning for a remap and DPF/EGR delete to which I initially believed this to be the cause of my issues, I ordered another unlocked one from them which apparently was a plug and play type affair which still produced the same results.
It was after a DPF/EGR delete that this all started to happen, not straight away mind.

I do have Peugeot Planet and DiagBox but I'm led to believe a Windows XP machine is required? Of which ones with working batteries seem to be hard to find these days... I'm not 100% I would get a reading from the plug in on this as there doesn't really seem to be any real power coming into the cabin, with a generic reader, an error came back that there was no communication with the ECU - voltage too low, or words to that effect.

It turns out you're right though, after searching the scrap yard high and low, I found the relay, and it wasn't at fault. Something else makes a noise at the back of the engine block occasionally but there's so much 'in the way' to get to any of the wiring etc. Very frustrating indeed. I'll give the video a watch though for sure !
 

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I you have a multimeter it would be worth checking the voltage between ground and each contact of the large black two pin plug that plugs into the BSI. The plugs contacts connect to maxifuse MF4 and MF5 respectively. I have attached a diagram for the BSI and the engine fusebox (BM34). I would also check the earth MC20. Note on later models such as the 206+ the engine fusebox is called PFS1 there is not that much difference to the BM34.

Good to know you have a Lexia 3. The important thing is you need a 32 bit laptop. It will even run on Windows 10 if you have a 32 bit machine. The way most people run the software is to use a virtual machine (e.g. VMware or VirtualBox). I suggest you look at Windy's post of the forum Service Box no longer free? . He has made a virtual machine version of Diagbox available for you to download. He has also added Servicebox which is where I got the wiring diagrams so it's worth having.

BTW I see your car has mixture of CAN and VAN buses so the newer Diagbox software is probably better than PP2000 for your car. Diagbox includes an imbedded version of PP2000 if you ever need it.
 

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I do have Peugeot Planet and DiagBox but I'm led to believe a Windows XP machine is required? Of which ones with working batteries seem to be hard to find these days... I'm not 100% I would get a reading from the plug in on this as there doesn't really seem to be any real power coming into the cabin, with a generic reader, an error came back that there was no communication with the ECU - voltage too low, or words to that effect.
Just another thought on your generic OBD reader:- That was an interesting point about no communication with the ECU -low voltage. I have attached a wiring diagram that shows how the OBD connector (C001) is directly connected to the ECU (1320). The ECU then connects to the BSI via a CAN bus (shown in green). The fact that the scanner is not able to communicate with the ECU could mean that the ECU is missing a power line. There are two power lines from the engine fuse box (BM34) and I see one of them has a splice E120. This splice connects to a lot of things and should be checked. I have attached a diagram showing where it is. That power to that line is controlled by a relay inside BM34. If one of the BM34 earths (MC10 or MC20) is bad it would cause a lot of problems as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is great information, thank you. I will try and trace back from the reader socket through. On a side thought, when this all happened, the A/C was pressed and everything went, would it be worth me 'pulling' this fuse for now? If so, is it located with the maxi fuses?
 

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This is great information, thank you. I will try and trace back from the reader socket through. On a side thought, when this all happened, the A/C was pressed and everything went, would it be worth me 'pulling' this fuse for now? If so, is it located with the maxi fuses?
That is an interesting point about the a/c on later model Peugeots there is a load shedding system that turns the a/c off when the battery performance degrades. However, in your case turning the a/c off is all that is necessary. The a/c compressor is run off the auxiliaries belt. There is electrically controlled clutch which engages the compressor's pulley. I guess it's possible for the clutch to jam and permanently engage the compressor. If the compressor is causing a large load the belt may slip which could cause the alternator not to charge properly. However, if the belt was slipping I expect you would hear it.

The 206 fuses are given here: Fuse Box Diagram Peugeot 206 (1999-2008) and it looks like fuse you want is fuse 18 (a/c fan) in the top part of the engine fusebox (not the maxi-fuse box).

Given that you have tried the three main electrical/electronic components I think you are now down to checking wiring. Some voltage measurements with a multimeter would be a great help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That’s the right fuse, I’ve pulled it out for now as even if I do get the car going again, I can live without the A/C.
my next step will be checking over some of the wiring with a multimeter, I removed the central locking fuse which oddly gave me the mileage reading back when the door is opened, also it let off a beep or two (like when the car detects it hasn’t locked correctly) also the CD player began checking for a disc and the illuminated top screen flashed on and off continually . I’m wondering if I remove every fuse aside from what the basic needs of the car are, whether the results would vary further. Also perhaps something is dragging all the power as there cannot be a combination of electrical load so if the panel comes back, turning the light stalk would kill all the power, if the key is turned, either top red button pressed etc would cause the same so wherever the battery power is going, it’s only fractionally reaching the cabin by the look of it. This makes me also wonder if my alternator has fried from an overload from the A/c leading to a circuit issue perhaps? Would that be something that could happen? I’ve got a mechanic coming on Saturday to have a look so with the print outs you guys have provided me this far, I’ve drawn out what every fuse does and such like haha.
 

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All this suggests you have bad connection between the battery and the engine fusebox. I guess you have already made sure the battery terminal connections are good. There should be two battery earths, you should check both of these.

One easy place to check the voltage is at the OBD connector Pin 1 to earth (e.g. pins 4 or 5). Try and turn a few things on and see if the voltage drops.

You plan is okay for diagnostic purposes but you should not live with things disconnected because there could be a bad connection due to a damaged overheating cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
All this suggests you have bad connection between the battery and the engine fusebox. I guess you have already made sure the battery terminal connections are good. There should be two battery earths, you should check both of these.

One easy place to check the voltage is at the OBD connector Pin 1 to earth (e.g. pins 4 or 5). Try and turn a few things on and see if the voltage drops.

You plan is okay for diagnostic purposes but you should not live with things disconnected because there could be a bad connection due to a damaged overheating cable.
It’s certainly got to be something simple once it’s found, I’m certainly finding it interesting that it’s doing different things every now and again. From what I can see with the fuse box, this speaks to the battery via the loop going through the front of the fuse box doesn’t it? Is there another connection on this I should be looking for.
I found the negative from the battery goes down under to what looks like the block, there’s some calcium like powder there but the connection looks undisturbed , perhaps if I unbolt it and clean it up that would eliminate this or would a good dose of WD40 sort this without undoing it? Somethings I just remembered when the car was still working , were :
That the passenger window started to become hit and miss whether it would work which I thought was weird, one day it would work, then it wouldn’t ..
I undersealed the car and remember spraying under the front so perhaps I sprayed something I shouldn’t ? Also, when I had the EGR deleted, I’m sure my mechanic said he left some wiring in place… Also! Apparently one of my injectors was on the Fritz which was causing some excessive engine vibration, maybe some wiring stretched or severed

Perhaps these are insignificant details but perhaps build a bigger picture (mostly of my incompetence 😅)
 

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there’s some calcium like powder there but the connection
In addition to cleaning up the terminal, which I would do. WD40 make a fast drying contact cleaner which you would be better off using.
That can be a sign of corrosion in the wire, if you have a multimeter, on the ohm's setting you can test the resistance in the wire from one point to another, a low reading is good, a high reading would mean the wire itself needs replacement or repair.
 

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It’s certainly got to be something simple once it’s found, I’m certainly finding it interesting that it’s doing different things every now and again. From what I can see with the fuse box, this speaks to the battery via the loop going through the front of the fuse box doesn’t it? Is there another connection on this I should be looking for.
I found the negative from the battery goes down under to what looks like the block, there’s some calcium like powder there but the connection looks undisturbed , perhaps if I unbolt it and clean it up that would eliminate this or would a good dose of WD40 sort this without undoing it? Somethings I just remembered when the car was still working , were :
That the passenger window started to become hit and miss whether it would work which I thought was weird, one day it would work, then it wouldn’t ..
I undersealed the car and remember spraying under the front so perhaps I sprayed something I shouldn’t ? Also, when I had the EGR deleted, I’m sure my mechanic said he left some wiring in place… Also! Apparently one of my injectors was on the Fritz which was causing some excessive engine vibration, maybe some wiring stretched or severed

Perhaps these are insignificant details but perhaps build a bigger picture (mostly of my incompetence 😅)
I would first check the voltage across the battery terminals then at the OBD connector. This will tell you if there is a voltage drop between the battery and the engine fusebox.

The wiring diagrams suggest there are two battery earths MM00 and MC12. I think you are looking at MC12 and there is likely to be a second cable going from that point to MM00 which is at the front of the car (see the earth location pdf I gave you). You should unbolt the earth and clean everything. However, before you do this you must follow the normal battery disconnect procedure - make sure everything is off and then wait 3 minutes.
 

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I have a couple more voltages worth checking at the OBD connector:
Pin 16 this should be 12V all the time whereas the ignition needs be on to get 12V at pin 1
Pin 7 is the bus (ISO9141) that connects to the ECU. It should be 12V relative earth when inactive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay chaps!
I was meant to have a mobile mechanic come out to look at the car on Wednesday but he was a no show (if you're in Devon, avoid Chris Putt) however, today I managed to get another mechanic named Froggy Auto to come and look at it and after a few hours with it, it's going again. Turns out it was actually an earth so thank you all for everything, I certainly feel more clued up with the ins and outs of the car more so than before I joined here :)
 
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