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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would be interested to hear from other 2 tronic owners regarding their experience on my problem.
Sometimes when manoeuvring into or out of a parking space the clutch does not engage at low revs and if I continue to accelerate the clutch comes in with a severe lurch. If aware of the revs rising I have to ease off and start again. Usually the steering is on full lock but it can happen in a straight line.
Our garage is diffcult to get into and the behaviour of the 2Tronic is a real pain.
For normal motoring it does not happen .
The problem seems to be on light on off acceleration where the clutch fails to engage at low revs.
I do not hurry when changing from forward to reverse and changing to manual mode for going forward does not help.
I would have thought the clutch engagement was based on revs so something seems to be amiss if the revs rise and the clutch does not engage.
Anybody else experience this ? Assistance appreciated.
I had a Toyota MMT box for 5 years. This has built in creep (easystart) and did not have this problem
 
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Toyotas MMT transmission is mechanically a manual box, but mechanically manipulated and electronically controlled to work like an auto. It is not really a relevant comparison for the 107..

The 107 is a true auto job, with torque converter and clutch pack. Modern electronically governed true autos have little or no creep to prevent damage from people holding them stationary in D. When they work the switching is very sensitive and fine control is possible, so using the gas to park or pop her in the garage is an easy task.

The box ECU should sense the revs rising and engage the clutch pack, and off you go. There's either a software fault, or possibly an internal switching fault in the box. Alas, the former is a dealer job, and the latter is a dealer/auto tranny specialist job.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
chopper1192 said:
Toyotas MMT transmission is mechanically a manual box, but mechanically manipulated and electronically controlled to work like an auto. It is not really a relevant comparison for the 107..

The 107 is a true auto job, with torque converter and clutch pack. Modern electronically governed true autos have little or no creep to prevent damage from people holding them stationary in D. When they work the switching is very sensitive and fine control is possible, so using the gas to park or pop her in the garage is an easy task.

The box ECU should sense the revs rising and engage the clutch pack, and off you go. There's either a software fault, or possibly an internal switching fault in the box. Alas, the former is a dealer job, and the latter is a dealer/auto tranny specialist job.

Good luck.

"The 107 is a true auto job, with torque converter and clutch pack"
That would be an interesting box. It has to be one or the other..

The MMT and 2 Tronic box are very similar but Toyota build in a slight clutch engagement to give a mild creep which they call "easystart". It has nothing like the creep of a conventional torque convertor automatic box but does what it says.
Hopefully, as you say, there is something wrong that can be fixed. My problem will be trying to drmonstrate the situation unless it shows up in a diagnostic test
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
chopper1192 said:
Toyotas MMT transmission is mechanically a manual box, but mechanically manipulated and electronically controlled to work like an auto. It is not really a relevant comparison for the 107..

The 107 is a true auto job, with torque converter and clutch pack. Modern electronically governed true autos have little or no creep to prevent damage from people holding them stationary in D. When they work the switching is very sensitive and fine control is possible, so using the gas to park or pop her in the garage is an easy task.

The box ECU should sense the revs rising and engage the clutch pack, and off you go. There's either a software fault, or possibly an internal switching fault in the box. Alas, the former is a dealer job, and the latter is a dealer/auto tranny specialist job.

Good luck.

"The 107 is a true auto job, with torque converter and clutch pack"
That would be an interesting box. It has to be one or the other..

The MMT and 2 Tronic box are very similar but Toyota build in a slight clutch engagement to give a mild creep which they call "easystart". It has nothing like the creep of a conventional torque convertor automatic box but does what it says.
Hopefully, as you say, there is something wrong that can be fixed. My problem will be trying to drmonstrate the situation unless it shows up in a diagnostic test
 
G

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The architecture of the MMT is that of a manual, complete with both layshaft and mainshaft. It is electronically shifted to mimic the behaviour of an auto. I've a schematic on PDF from Toyota if anyone is having trouble with insomnia.

The 107 is a proper auto, in that it employs a torque converter. The unit is manufactured by ZF.

There is virtually no mechanical similarity between the two.

I reckon, though it's gut feeling with a dose of best guess, that a software update might solve your woes and see you happy again ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
107 has no torque conerter

I so not kbow where the confusion lies but the 107 has a 2Tronic box which is one of the many boxes licensed from Porsche under their Tiptronic patent and appear from most manufacturers under a multitude of tronic names.
These boxes do not have a torque converter as fitted to conventional automatic boxes.
They obviously have torque sensors to determine when gears change and the clutch is activated.
 
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The 4 speed 107 unit, developed by Aisin AW and also built under licence by ZF in Europe, is not an automated manual like the 6 speed unit used elsewhere in the PSA range, and is not one of the Porsche Einspritzen licenced units, whereas the 6 speed PSA unit is.

When I'm at home on a proper computer I'll pull off a schematic, and you can then decide for yourself what's wrong with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
chopper1192 said:
The 4 speed 107 unit, developed by Aisin AW and also built under licence by ZF in Europe, is not an automated manual like the 6 speed unit used elsewhere in the PSA range, and is not one of the Porsche Einspritzen licenced units, whereas the 6 speed PSA unit is.

When I'm at home on a proper computer I'll pull off a schematic, and you can then decide for yourself what's wrong with it.
Not wishing to be inpolite but what you write is mostly wrong . I do not know where you ger your info. from but you are totally incorrect regarding the 2Tronic box as fitted to the 107.
In a purely humorous mode do not bother with any schematics just pull the trigger. Subject closed as far as I am concerned.
 

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Geriatric i don`t think you know chopper , us pure mortals here can tell you but i`m sure you`ve heard of the story about a dog and it`s bone, let battle commence .:lol: :lol:
 
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Home now. Checked Servicebox - apart from the actuators (B0F 2 24B 01A) nothing at all on there for the auto. The assumption I make from this is that Pug don't fanny about repairing them and just replace the whole unit if it's faulty, so a proper auto box specialist may be your best bet, unless it's under warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had intended to drop this matter but what you have written is in similar vein to earlier contributions and is totally unrelated to the facts and as such could be misleading to other members.
I had already studied the diagrams of the 2 Tronic box as fitted to the 107 which of course are on Service Box. Spare part kits are also shown.
Peugeot refer to the 2Tronic as Piloted Manual Box of type MAP.
All assemblies have a suffix P and thus the gearbox is BVM C550P.
If you look at the diagrams no doubt you will observe that there in no "torque converter"

On a Peugeot page is some information on their 2 Tronic box.

"2-Tronic gearbox is developed from the“Tiptronic Porsche System” sequential automatic transmission:
In automatic mode, these transmission systems with full electronic management select gear ratios according to the driver's actions, making driving extremely comfortable. You prefer more active driving? You need merely switch to manual mode. In this case you have the “Tiptronic - Porsche System” sequential control system."

Perhaps we can now finnish this thread.
 

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Geriatric

I know it has been some time since your post, but i am interested if you had any success with the jerky clutch problem on your 107 auto.

I too have the same problem. it started about 3 months ago and seems to more severe when the car is cold - especially when the weather is cold or damp. it gets to the point of hardly being controllable when pulling away slowly. i have a feeling it is to do with the 'box' on top of the clutch actuating lever, or maybe just a worn out clutch.

when the car has warmed up somewhat - after about 15-20 mins of driving - the effects are greatly reduced.

BTW the car is 5 yrs old, 65,000 miles and i had it from new.

Anyone else out the had the same problem?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have a feeling with the mileage that you have done it could well be the clutch going. My juddering was due to the clutch not engaging when it should and it became pretty bad twice. In Aug 2010 the MMT ECU was reset and and the car had very mild creep whenfirst engaging gear and all the changes both up and down were very smooth. In Feb 2011 it had gradually deteriorated and the lurches were pretty fierce but then it improved a bit but then deteriorated this month when I had the box again reset. Both times under warranty so I do not know how much this would cost. It had become pretty bad starting off and even worse on full lock but it is now driving really well with very good gear changes. I have not been able to find out how the wear on the clutch is taken up on the MMT box. On the manual box which is cable activated the cable has to be adjusted. There is no way it is possible to reset the ECU on the MMT box without the workshop diagnostic and adjuster . Any suggestions like disconnecting the battery do nothing.
I attach pages for the MMT box from the C1 2005 workshop manual. (Sorry too large 470kb upload limit only 19.5kb)
I think all you can do is get a diagnostics on your box by Peugeot , Citroen or Toyota.
 

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Thanks for the reply - and so quickly! that was very useful. your experiences with the bad changes and how they improved by having the ECU reset are really interesting. i have never found the box to be perfect, so perhaps there has always been a problem with my car/ECU version.

i also suspect that the clutch is pretty well worn, so perhaps i will kill two birds with one stone.

you dont know of a good dealer in the east midlands area, do you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
not so happy

Sorry live in Portugal cannot help but would beinterested how you get on.
Below are some answers I got from a Toyota technician.

1. Has the MMT box got a separate ECU? If it has where is the diagnostic tool connected? Is it the same tool as used for the engine?

the mmt has a seperate ecu and it is accessed through the same port as the engine ecu

2. I have a workshop manual for the C1 2005 and it seems to show that the clutch actuator adjustment is automatic.
Is this the case?

yes it is automatic but its not if you remove it ie when chancing a clutch...theirs a procedure for setting up the gears actuator and clutch count....

3.I have had my 107 two years and when new and after the clutch has been reset (twice) it has very mild creep and the gear changes are very smooth. After several months the gear changes, especially 1 and 2 become very jerky.
I feel that the clutch is no longer engaging quickly and the creep has gone. If the clutch adjustment is automatic why have I had to have the actuators reset? Is this normal? I do about 6,000kms a year.

due to the low milage you do that could be the issue...do you ever use manual mode?that can help keep it all in time..

4. My car is now out of warranty and I am wondering what the cost of a reset would be?

a reset will prob be around half an hours labour but phone customer services and explain the greef and the low milage and they might contrabute

5. I had a Corolla with MMT for five years and it had much stronger creep and the box never needed adjustment.
Can the amount of creep be set by the diagnostic tool?

no mate the creep cant be adjusted when the clutch count and gear positions are reset thats when you get the creep back
 

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Many thanks for the info - so helpful. I have decided to 'live with it' for a short while - got to get christmas over with first!

then its down to the garage to see if they can re-set the ECU.

thanks again. regards:)
 

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Hi,

Apologies for reviving this thread. I've got a rather basic question.

Does the 107 2tronic use the same clutch kit as the manual version (ie. there's only one clutch kit for this model).

I've got 78000km under the hood and my clutch is slipping (loss of power, slow acceleration, jerkiness in gear 1 and 2). I guess it's time to replace it, and I'd like to order a clutch kit online because getting it through the dealership's too expensive.

Thanks!
 

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107 clutch - not sure

not really sure about this, but I see no reason why it should be different to the manual version. As far as I can make out, the clutch/gearbox is the same as the manual one, except it has a control box attached to the clutch operating lever (and of course the servo stuff for changing gear).

Mind you I would imaging that changing the thing could be complex what with all the controls etc.

I now have 72,000miles on the clock and although the clutch is very jerky when pulling away from cold, i am trying to put up with it. No clutch slip or other problems when warm, though. The local peugeot garage tested it and said that it was fine (which is mechanic speak for 'i haven't a clue what wrong, but cant be bothered to check it out).

Hope you have a friendly mechanic to assist!
 

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Clutch replaced on 2006 107 1.0 2-tronic needed adjustment of clutch through planet

Hi all,

Thought i would share this with everyone.
We replaced a Clutch on a 2006 107 1.0 2-tronic after which it would not shift neither move out of -N- So we plugged in peugoet planet still no go... so after a few days took it to dealers were quoted £89.00 Daignostics etc... technician there said it needed adjustment of clutch Control and RESET of CLUTCH BITING POINT & Reprogramme of Gears. through planet... after £89.00 problem solved . ;)

so if you want to replace the clutch on the 107 2-tronic you can but remember you might have to take it to dealers for programming.

PS came in with problem of not moving even when pressing accelarator to the footwell still would not move it would maybe creep forward after clutch replaced and reprogrammed 107 is driving around like new.
 

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Success! well Done

Well done, and thanks for sharing that.

I cannot understand why my local dealer is so reluctant to suggest plugging in the diagnostic tool and making the adjustments as per your experience - lets face it, he would get another £89 out of me.

Armed with you knowledge, i think i will approach a different dealer/garage to see what they can do.

Many thanks!
 
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