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Hello.

I thought I'd share my experience of oil leaking from the injectors, and how they are now after having the seals replaced.

I've not been using the 307 much since I've had the the work done. Our roads locally, are in a really bad way at the moment due to the constant rain we've had this year, so I've been using an old Toyota Rav 4 which I purchased as a back up to the Peugeot. The 307 rattles it's self into bits, so I only use it when I'm leaving the Island or need the space.

Anyway, back to the injectors. They are leaking again after maybe 60 miles. The bolts holding the injectors slackened off. I torqued them back up and took the car for a drive. I was surprised to find them lose again when I returned home. I have nipped them up again and I'll continue to do so after a drive, but they need replaced. I understand the two stage 4 NM then 65 degrees might not apply to old stretch bolts, so I've been using a torque setting of 13 NM. I have no idea if this is correct, but it feels right and does seal the injector until it slackens off again. I used the torque setting from the two bolts that appear to be holding. I've read on other forums that some people are using a torque setting of 20-30. Personally, for me anyway, this feels a tad high, but I might be wrong? I don't want to break the bolts, so maybe I'm being cautious?

So basically, it looks like I'll need to redo the seals again, but I will replace the bolts as well. The seals don't appear to be the problem here, but the bolts.

Probably old news to you guys who know, but for someone who has just experienced the oil pools around the injectors, it might be a good idea to replace the bolts too. Well, saying that, I hadn't replaced them yet, but I'll update when I have.

All the best...
 

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I tighten them as tight as I dare I don't use a torque wrench I simply do it by feel after 30 years my arm knows what is tight enough :)

If it is actually oil then its not coming from the injectors its the thick crusty carbon that comes from the injector seals oil is more likely to be coming from the rocker covers or leaking through the gaps in the 2 halves of the head castings.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I tighten them as tight as I dare I don't use a torque wrench I simply do it by feel after 30 years my arm knows what is tight enough :)

If it is actually oil then its not coming from the injectors its the thick crusty carbon that comes from the injector seals oil is more likely to be coming from the rocker covers or leaking through the gaps in the 2 halves of the head castings.
An arm that knows when to stop, nothing beats it :-D

My bolts are not holding torque now, so I guess that's that.

I know what you mean about the oil. It's crazy, but I've had two different garages check it out. One said it was the rocker cover gasket, so I changed that. Second garage said it was injector one leaking, I suspected that due to being wet, and the rocker cover gasket! :-D I had all 4 injector seals replaced and the rocker cover gasket, again. Everything nice and dry for a few miles, thought that was that, but it's all started again. It appears to be worse this time. Oil pools around the injectors, and stops when the injector bolts are torqued down. I was thinking that maybe the manifold seals were leaking but that wouldn't relate to the injectors.

Just maybe I thought the problem was fixed, or wanted to believe the problem was fixed, but wasn't. I got so used to not using the car, that I never really went back to it, unless I really needed to.

I'll start with replacing the bolts that aren't holding torque and move on when I know the injectors are sealing and take it from there...

All the best...
 

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if it is pools of oil it is not coming from the injectors, its got to be coming from the rocker cover area. i also just tighten injector studs and bolts to tight with my trusty arm but i also nip them up again when hot. my experience of them is you could tighten them all day but also they are very easy to shear off.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
if it is pools of oil it is not coming from the injectors, its got to be coming from the rocker cover area. i also just tighten injector studs and bolts to tight with my trusty arm but i also nip them up again when hot. my experience of them is you could tighten them all day but also they are very easy to shear off.
I don't trust my arm to supply equal torque to both bolts.

That's the problem I guess, they shouldn't need constant tightening. I would imagine if they are stretch bolts, they would need replaced if they've been removed, surely? The bolts aren't expensive and if it helps stop the injectors leaking, worth while replacing when replacing the seals. I'll give it a go anyway. The bolts around injector 1 and two slacken right off after just a few miles, and like you said, to keep tightening them up will probably break them.

I think I can rule out the rocker cover as it has been
replaced twice now. There appears to be quite a few stories of people online replacing the rocker cover gasket multiple times, only to find it was something else causing their oil leak.

Injector 1 and 2 had crud around them originally, this is also the area were the oil leak appeared to originate from originally and again. I am not familiar with this engine yet, and hopefully I never will be, as this means I'lve needed to work on it :-D. I only intended keeping the car for a short time and would not consider selling it with the oil leak. I don't like passing on my problems :-D


All the best...
 

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Any bolts that are subject to angular torque must be replaced on reassembly otherwise they will slacken off. It is difficult to put a standard torque value on an angular torque because angular torque disregards friction in the threads but from what you say those bolts are normally pretty tight and certainly tighter than the torque you have been using. You are correct to replace the bolts with new ones and follow correct torque procedure, you shouldn't have any more problems with slack bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Any bolts that are subject to angular torque must be replaced on reassembly otherwise they will slacken off. It is difficult to put a standard torque value on an angular torque because angular torque disregards friction in the threads but from what you say those bolts are normally pretty tight and certainly tighter than the torque you have been using. You are correct to replace the bolts with new ones and follow correct torque procedure, you shouldn't have any more problems with slack bolts.
Thank you for your reply.

I might be wrong, and I am frequently, but I don't often come across anyone recommending the bolts be replaced when the injectors start leaking. I'm not implying that it has not been said, but it is quite rare. Maybe it's just something people do, who are familiar with the engine I thought.

Not replacing the bolts and changing the injector seals might help, but not in the long term I would imagine. I've read about so so many people, replacing their seals, only to complain that they are leaking again, without a mention of the bolts. In my case anyway, the bolts have given up, maybe others have a similar problem and haven't taken the bolts into consideration.

The oil leak is a strange one. Again, from Citroen to Mazda forums I've read about the oil pooling at the injectors and a common reply is, your injectors are leaking. Some people tighten them up and the oil leak stops, others say that the oil can't be coming from the Injector and must be coming from the timing chain causing damage, or maybe the rocker cover etc and for the lucky ones who can pin it down to the rocker, this is good news! But there does appear to be a few of us out there who don't have these issues and continue to leak oil in this area.


I can't for the life of me work out why people would say oil is leaking up from the injectors, but it is often said. Two local garages here also said it is a possibility? I don't understand why there would be oil below the injector? Why the oil seal? It is an oil leak I have for sure, and not diesel, and it originates around injector 1 & 2. The oil leak appeared to stop for a while after the seals were replaced, like others, but how could this be if the injectors have no relation to the oil? I am probably missing something, it wouldn't be the first time.

I'm thinking maybe, what reliable406 said about the two halves maybe, and the inlet manifold seals. The car before I owned it was grossly overfilled with oil due to a broken dipstick, high oil pressure build damaging things.

I guess at this point, there is not a single answer, so I'll just start replacing things. I'll replace the inlet manifold seals and everything else in that area that could be a problem, injector seals again, but with fresh bolts and see how it goes.

All the best...
 

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Oil leaks can be very hard to pinpoint unless there is a known problem with this engine. With regard to the bolts a lot of people don't replace bolts even when they should. I don't tend to unless they have an angular torque. This is because angular torques generally take the bolt to not far short of its yield point. In common parlence this means you effectively prestetch the bolt if you like. Once the bolts have been in the engine for some time they loose a lot of their "memory" or elasticity and the same effect can't be achieved the second time around, this either leads to them snapping (effectively yielding) or they simply slacken off because there is little elasticity to maintain the high friction needed to keep them tight. Sorry a bit of a mouthful but in summary if bolts are subject to angular torque they should be replaced, also the bolt spec is very important as the wrong bolt can cause problems. Bolts are usually one of the only things I buy from an agent because I know I will get the right spec for the job unless the agent can tell you what type of bolt it is. Classic is cylinder head gaskets where people replace the gasket but not the bolts, all that happens is the gasket blows again. Years ago you had to re torque bolts after a certain period, angular torque has dispensed with the need for this by prestressing the bolt in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oil leaks can be very hard to pinpoint unless there is a known problem with this engine. With regard to the bolts a lot of people don't replace bolts even when they should. I don't tend to unless they have an angular torque. This is because angular torques generally take the bolt to not far short of its yield point. In common parlence this means you effectively prestetch the bolt if you like. Once the bolts have been in the engine for some time they loose a lot of their "memory" or elasticity and the same effect can't be achieved the second time around, this either leads to them snapping (effectively yielding) or they simply slacken off because there is little elasticity to maintain the high friction needed to keep them tight. Sorry a bit of a mouthful but in summary if bolts are subject to angular torque they should be replaced, also the bolt spec is very important as the wrong bolt can cause problems. Bolts are usually one of the only things I buy from an agent because I know I will get the right spec for the job unless the agent can tell you what type of bolt it is. Classic is cylinder head gaskets where people replace the gasket but not the bolts, all that happens is the gasket blows again. Years ago you had to re torque bolts after a certain period, angular torque has dispensed with the need for this by prestressing the bolt in the first place.
Perfect! Thanks for that :-D
 

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As above replace bolts and bolt with angular torque figures are usually "stretch bolts" and therefore single use.
 
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