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Old 03-12-17, 07:02 PM   #1
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Default James May's Cars of the People

Just been watching James May's Cars of the People on Dave. I know, I know, but actually it was very entertaining and funny at the same time. Pretty watchable.

He was showing the Hyundai IX35 Hydrogen Fuel Cell car and explaining how it works in simple terms and suggesting that you could fill up with hydrogen at a fuel station (same time needed as filling up with petrol) and it will do 350 miles, converting hydrogen with oxygen to make energy and with the waste product being (of course) water.

Suggests that there are only 3 hydrogen fuel stations in the country and that the only thing stopping the concept becoming mainstream is the fill up infrastructure.

It sounded too good to be true. Begs the question, why are we farting about with electric charging points?
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Old 03-12-17, 07:14 PM   #2
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Richard,

I have to ask, but what's this all got to do with our 3008's?

Do you want me to move it to the Idle chat section for the whole forum to read and comment on?

Paul
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Old 03-12-17, 07:39 PM   #3
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Richard,

I have to ask, but what's this all got to do with our 3008's?

Do you want me to move it to the Idle chat section for the whole forum to read and comment on?

Paul
Hi Paul,

Sorry yes, I am perfectly happy with that. My apologies. Its just that I've only used the 3008 page so wasn't consciously aware of all the other pages as I've not used them.

Move it over please and it will give me the shove to go have a look and widen my horizons
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Old 03-12-17, 07:53 PM   #4
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No problem.

In fact, I recommend all users of just one of the sections to have a look at some other sections.

OK, perhaps not other model sections, but Idle chat, General discussion, dealer reviews to name a few....their full of interesting posts.

Paul
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Old 03-12-17, 10:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DSLRed View Post
Suggests that there are only 3 hydrogen fuel stations in the country and that the only thing stopping the concept becoming mainstream is the fill up infrastructure.

It sounded too good to be true. Begs the question, why are we farting about with electric charging points?
Cost. Every time you convert energy from one form to another, there are inefficiencies. It is far more economical to store electrical energy in a battery than it is to convert it to chemical energy (liquid hydrogen), and then re-convert that into electrical energy. Plus additional costs of distribution - you require a fleet of tankers and hydrogen tanks at all the filling stations, whereas the infrastructure to distribute electrical energy is already in place (the national grid).

Unless wind, tidal and solar become markedly cheaper than current projections, such that it could be argued that the inefficiencies are trivial compared to the convenience, there is no way a hydrogen-based system can compete on price.

There is also the safety issue - fire and explosion hazard is much greater with hydrogen.
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Old 04-12-17, 07:19 AM   #6
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Here's an interesting article. Fuel Cell isn't dead yet

https://japantoday.com/category/tech...-in-california

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Old 04-12-17, 12:56 PM   #7
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Here's an interesting article. Fuel Cell isn't dead yet

https://japantoday.com/category/tech...-in-california

Grumpy
Once we start running out of oil, things will shake up dramatically... hydrogen cells are a perfect example, once oil is on short supply electrical energy will also be much more expensive (and many many other things).

People usually connect oil shortage with the gas price for their car, and that's where the story usually ends, but actually oil drives most of our industrial world as we know it... when that stuff runs out, we'll have to come up with Industry 5.0, and build it from zero up.
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Old 12-02-18, 02:55 PM   #8
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Cost. Every time you convert energy from one form to another, there are inefficiencies. It is far more economical to store electrical energy in a battery than it is to convert it to chemical energy (liquid hydrogen), and then re-convert that into electrical energy. Plus additional costs of distribution - you require a fleet of tankers and hydrogen tanks at all the filling stations, whereas the infrastructure to distribute electrical energy is already in place (the national grid).

Unless wind, tidal and solar become markedly cheaper than current projections, such that it could be argued that the inefficiencies are trivial compared to the convenience, there is no way a hydrogen-based system can compete on price.

There is also the safety issue - fire and explosion hazard is much greater with hydrogen.
Don't let a little technical hiccup such the Hindenburg put you off.

I'm glad you've pointed out that energy cannot be created but merely converted.
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Old 12-02-18, 03:52 PM   #9
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Or Apollo 13 A fuel cell explosion is what caused their issues.

The current national electrical grid will not be able to cope so they recon with anything more than a 10% increase in electric vehicles.

So the increase in infrastructure improvements and installation of viable charging stations will not be much cheaper that the hydrogen installation at fuel stations.

The elephant in the room however is that we do not have the generating capacity to produce the electricity to charge batteries or make hydrogen. If we do not go hydro or wind we will only be moving the emissions from the car exhaust to the power station
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Old 12-02-18, 04:20 PM   #10
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Or Apollo 13 A fuel cell explosion is what caused their issues.
It was actually a liquid oxygen tank, and the explosion was caused by a chain of errors which started when a switch which had been specified for a low voltage tank heating circuit was overlooked when the circuit was redesigned for a higher voltage. The heater was used to dry-out the tank on the launch pad after a test, and the excess current welded the switch contacts closed.

When in space, an overheat condition, which should have caused the contacts to open, could not do so, and BOOM.

Apollo 13 does not call into question the safety of automotive fuel cells, which do not require liquid oxygen tanks, heated or otherwise. The required oxygen is sourced from ambient air.

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