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Old 24-09-13, 01:28 PM   #1
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Question Fiat copy auto transmission.

Hi, (I am new and fishing for help)
I have been told that the fiat Ulysse Automatic(04 plate) to all intents and purposes is the same as the 807. Fiat however declare their Auto Transmission is sealed for life. Meaning I can't use it.

This means I can get no information about the gear box.
I believe it is the same as the 807 which I understand is the ALO4.

I am having to guess what the fluid levels should be the Fiat book says;
"4,25/6."
I am guessing that means I can drain 1.5ltrs, however on trying this 2 ltrs came out.

It is not restarting after 10 miles showing no fault. (although lcd is damaged.)

If someone knows what the fluid levels are it would help.
I am guessing that the fluid level device used on the 807 could be fitted so I
can use my car rather than scrap it.
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Old 24-09-13, 03:33 PM   #2
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Most manufacturers claim sealed for life for autos !!

There are 2 possible boxes in your car I would expect it to be a zf 4hp type but have seen some with the inferior box not sure of its manufacturer but it may be zf also

The 4hp type has a cooler on top well its not actually a cooler but that's what it looks like !! it has a round plug for the wiring

The 4hp has a dipstick low down on its front edge usually black so hard to spot
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Old 24-09-13, 04:05 PM   #3
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Default Type of auto transmission

To be certain I will need time to check it. I did not see anything last time I looked. I know the drain plug is one piece with no level guage so that may be the explanation. I will check it as soon as, and let you know.
This is really helpful.
Cheers
Andy
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Old 25-09-13, 09:30 AM   #4
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Default Fiat Auto Transmission

Hi,

Yesterday I was given advice about the possible details of my Auto Transmission which I understand to be the same as the Peugeot 807 Auto Transmission which is, my son tells me, the AL4 Auto trans.
Thanks for the suggestion yesterday but unfortunately it does not have a hidden dipstick.
The Peugeot I believe has a drain plug that has a level aid to help ensure correct top up. Unfortunately on my Fiat "sealed for life" means no level plug is supplied.
I might even be able to sub the Fiat drain plug with the Peugeot drain and fluid level plug which I understand is made up of the level gauge which fits in first then the drain plug inserts into the level gauge. (I hope that makes sense)

Thanks for your advice I learn more with every bit of helpfault. I am determined not to let this beat me. Apparently my next job is to replace the pressure and lock up solenoids. The thing I will do first is find them on the box they may be on the outside but I don't know where.

Thanks for your help.

Kind Regards

Andy
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Old 25-09-13, 04:31 PM   #5
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Yep if it is the al4 type then the solenoids do indeed cause problems the same basic box is used in Renaults with the same problems although Renault call it a DPO !!

The solenoids are internal though.

I had a look at a broken one I have from a 406 hdi and it is indeed an al4 only the bigger engines get the decent box !!
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Old 13-10-13, 01:24 PM   #6
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Default Fluid Levels...

Hi All, We're absolutely sure its an AL4 box. What we're having difficulty ascertaining is the amount of fluid that should be in this box. Is there meant to be 4.5 litres outside of the torque converter? If anybody has access to the fluid levels that should be used in an 54 807 2.0 petrol auto it'd be great to have a definite figure.

Many thanks in advance,

Rich.
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Old 13-10-13, 05:16 PM   #7
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From what rel 406 says the trans is similar to the DPO fitted to my Scenic, changing the fluid is a great idea, auto repairers reccomend every 24K miles but as you have found out not all the fluid comes out as much is held in the torque converter, In mine about 3 litres drains from the capacity of 4 litres. All you can do is put back a little more than drained out, go for a run say 7 miles or so to get it warm then with the engine running cycle through the gearbox and then in neutral or park still running remove the small drain plug and confirm a little fluid comes out. If none stop the engine and add more and try again. Don't remove the level plug without the engine running, fluid will p.. out, best.
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Old 13-10-13, 05:24 PM   #8
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Hi wynb, Yep the DPO and AL4 are meant to be the same thing. It appears that different fluid levels are specified for different cars though and on 807, fiat Ulysse and citroen c8 because there is no dipstick theres no freely available information. Fiat specify is as sealed for life, but i believe peugeot do suggest changes....

At the moment the box has about 1.8 litres in it but we think it should be more. We've only put that in because that's all that came out.

There are a couple of confusing factors - when the gearbox gives up if you turn the car off and attempt to restart it it's dead. the ecu appears to shut it off. you have to leave it for a few hours before a restart. There are no warning codes showing on the lcd. Im wondering if it's worth getting some sort of OBD reader and whether something generic will help or not?

THanks for the reply. All insight gratefully received!

Cheers,

Rich

Last edited by richf; 13-10-13 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 13-10-13, 06:36 PM   #9
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Sounds like an electrical problem as much as anything else, getting the codes read with Fiat's diagnostic reader might give some clues, I don't think a plain OBD reader will tell you anything useful. How about carefully removing the wiring plugs to and from the auto ecu and checking for corrosion, is the pollen filter in place above the gearbox as if it is missing rain will be dripping onto the gearbox through the intake grille just below the windscreen. Are the rubber tubes sealing the gutters at the corners of the windscreen? Water will drip onto the engine ecu and the engine fuseboard on the other side if they are not 100%.
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Old 13-10-13, 06:57 PM   #10
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Some good ideas there. Certainly they may have something to do with the not restarting thing. We'll get them checked out in the next day or two and post back

The car does drive for about 20 miles before losing drive then wont restart so there could be 2 things at play here.

Thanks,

Rich
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