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Old 30-09-15, 09:39 AM   #1
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Default Particulate filter and Eolys fluid

It says in my 407 maintenance manual that the fluid for burning off soot deposits should be topped up after 70,000 miles. It also says this can only be done at a Peugeot dealer.

I read elsewhere on this forum that a warning light comes on when the fluid is too low or has run out.

Can I leave this until after the warning light comes on or will be be picked up and included during a 72,000 mile Peugeot service.

Not wanting to spend £125 if only a top up!
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Old 30-09-15, 12:07 PM   #2
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Don't think dealer will check this during the service as most folk wait until the light comes on. There isn't a gauge like a fuel tank just a low level warning sensor. It may last quite a while longer but I think you can top up the tank if you want to avoid the risk of the light coming on which then requires a reset using Planet
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Old 30-09-15, 07:11 PM   #3
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Leave it until it needs doing.

The fuel tank is dosed with a fixed amount of additive every time the filler cap is removed. The compuer calculates how much additive is left (the actual leve is not measures) and lets you know when there's none left.

When you refill the additive the computer must have its counter reset.

The parameter measurements in PP2k let you see how much additive is left.

My 2.2 HDi has covered 97k miles and there is enough additive left for over 150 visits to the petrol station, which should easily cover a further 90k.

The other thing that happens is that the additive builds up in the filter until the filter is clogged and must be cleaned or replaced. (The soot burns off but the additive doesn't.) Again, this is caluclated by the computer and not measured (the differential pressure sensor acts only as an emergency override to the computer calculations). Again, you can see the amount of additive clogging the filter. I'm on 90, I've seen a 607 on 140 without trouble, but I have no idea what the limit is. It seems to clog at a rate of roughly 1 per 1000 miles.

By brim filling then running to nearly empty you minimise the amount of additive you're using, its concentratoin in the diesel, and in turn the filter clog rate. If you're forever putting in a tenners worth then your additive will need filling sooner and your DPF will clog sooner.
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Last edited by rwb; 30-09-15 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-10-15, 07:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwb View Post
Leave it until it needs doing.

The fuel tank is dosed with a fixed amount of additive every time the filler cap is removed. The computer calculates how much additive is left (the actual level is not measures) and lets you know when there's none left.
So that means if you fill up often (don't wait until you are nearly out of fuel) the auto-dose will put more in the fuel than necessary, and as you say the additive will run out quciker and clog the filter earlier.

From what you say, it appears that most cars could safely do 100,000 miles without worrying about this at all. It makes you wonder why the Peugeot manual says get it topped up at 72,000 miles!
It must be calculable, 10 gallon tank, 45mpg 450miles to tank = 222 fill ups for 100,000 miles. 'X' amount of additive per fill up, additive tank capacity etc.
One thing its sounds it aint is 72,000 miles Peugeot!!
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Old 01-10-15, 07:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
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From what you say, it appears that most cars could safely do 100,000 miles without worrying about this at all. It makes you wonder why the Peugeot manual says get it topped up at 72,000 miles!
Depends whether the owner

A) Knows about the system (many of my customers look at me with blank looks when I say their additive is tank is empty or needs a new DPF - "is that the cat?" asked one)

B) Knows that small fuel fillups use the additive quicker.

I've seen early 308s need a new additive pouch as low as 50,000 miles because it was a car for pootling round the shops and got a tenner's worth of fuel every week or so.
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Old 01-10-15, 09:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwb View Post
Leave it until it needs doing.

The fuel tank is dosed with a fixed amount of additive every time the filler cap is removed. The compuer calculates how much additive is left (the actual leve is not measures) and lets you know when there's none left.

When you refill the additive the computer must have its counter reset.

The parameter measurements in PP2k let you see how much additive is left.

My 2.2 HDi has covered 97k miles and there is enough additive left for over 150 visits to the petrol station, which should easily cover a further 90k.

The other thing that happens is that the additive builds up in the filter until the filter is clogged and must be cleaned or replaced. (The soot burns off but the additive doesn't.) Again, this is caluclated by the computer and not measured (the differential pressure sensor acts only as an emergency override to the computer calculations). Again, you can see the amount of additive clogging the filter. I'm on 90, I've seen a 607 on 140 without trouble, but I have no idea what the limit is. It seems to clog at a rate of roughly 1 per 1000 miles.

By brim filling then running to nearly empty you minimise the amount of additive you're using, its concentratoin in the diesel, and in turn the filter clog rate. If you're forever putting in a tenners worth then your additive will need filling sooner and your DPF will clog sooner.
Can this build up of additive happend because glow plugs are faulty,as i heard they are nedded for regenaration?
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Old 01-10-15, 06:53 PM   #7
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Can this build up of additive happend because glow plugs are faulty,as i heard they are nedded for regenaration?
I do not know for certain, however, there is anecdotal evidence (including first hand) that if the glow plugs are faulty then the regen is aborted.

A sequence of aborted regens causes the EML to come on.

A regen is due when the load of soot in the particle filter, as caluclated by the computer, reaches a certain level. The additive is a catalyst which reduces the temperature at which the soot burns. To burn the soot the exhaust temperature must be raised to over 400 degrees (it's usually between 100 and 200).

(Although the style of driving affects the rate at which soot accumulates in the particle filter -- this is implemented in the computer algorithm for estimating the load -- I do not see how soot can burn off during regular driving because the exhaust temperature can never get high enough. Therefore I do no believe the claims I see on the Internet that if driven a certain way that regens are not needed.)

A number of things are done in order to raise the exhaust temperature. One of them is to put extra load on the engine by turning on the heated rear windscreen (and heated door mirrors), and by turning on the glow plugs.
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Old 01-10-15, 08:25 PM   #8
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My 2008 2.2 hdi has just over 3 liters left.So it has been done at some point as its now on 160000 miles.
My Dads 2008 2.0 hdi has just over a liter left in at at 79000 miles,so he should be good till 100000 miles.
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Old 01-10-15, 08:35 PM   #9
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Mine needed topping up at 98k
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Old 01-10-15, 08:42 PM   #10
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Our taxis needed a refill at 80k miles but they were refuelled twice a day at every shift change so it used it much quicker than normal i would expect 100k miles easily with proper use.
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