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Old 20-04-13, 09:14 PM   #1
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Default Brake failure, eek

Hi guys,

Earlier this evening while manoeuvring slowly my brakes suddenly failed Luckily I was only parallel parking but I still had to plant my full weight on the pedal to avoid hitting the car behind me - I dread to think what would have happened if me or my girlfriend had been driving on main roads when this happened! The pedal suddenly went solid with little movement and had clearly lost all hydraulic assistance.

I parked, switched off the engine and restarted with the brakes now operating correctly, and very carefully made my way home.

I only bought the car 5 days ago and since then I have had intermittent ABS/ESP faults popping up. Some suggested this could be caused by a faulty brake switch - could this also lead to total failure? Or any other way these faults could be connected.

Obviously I can't use the car until I know what is causing this so any help very much appreciated
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Old 20-04-13, 09:44 PM   #2
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If your pedal went solid then there is something not right as normally what most would call brake failure is where the pedal goes all the way to the floor.

By the sounds of it either something is jamming the pedal assembly or you may have lost vacum assistance making the pedal very hard.

To be honest this is unlikely to be connected to the abs/esp fault as that seems to be a common electrical issue on 407s although having said that the abs pump unit could actually be faulty.

We had a faulty abs unit but it would hold the brakes on rather than stop them working !

I would be going back to the dealer with it assuming it was a dealer
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Old 20-04-13, 10:05 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately it was a private sale.

The frustrating thing is that with everything being electronic nowadays, after switching off and on everything works fine. I think i'm right in saying that to check for normal vacuum operation I would pump the brake until hard with engine off, then start the engine with my foot on the pedal and it should then soften and allow movement - no doubt this will happen as normal as the fault just happened once out of the blue (no fault appeared on the display at the time).

What does the brake switch actually do? Is it this that actually detects the movement of the pedal and brings in the power assistance? There was still minimal brake operation but it felt just like if you rolled down a hill in neutral with the engine off and tried to brake.
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Old 20-04-13, 11:10 PM   #4
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One thing. Brakes can't fail. One, there is two circuits and you'd have to have had at least two brake pipes cut on both circuits for the brakes to fail totally. What you experienced is failure of brake assistance. Also with failure of assistance the brakes haven't failed. They still work but you have to push the pedal a little more. Just to get things straight. There'll be loads of people reading your thread now as it begins with brakes failed but they actually haven't.

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Old 20-04-13, 11:12 PM   #5
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PEUGEOT 407 & 607 Recall - Brake performance may be affected.
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Old 21-04-13, 11:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyswollocks View Post
Thanks, that's helpful. Will give Peugeot a ring tomorrow. Is there a time limit on the free recall?
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Old 21-04-13, 06:14 PM   #7
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Working at a dealership i know there isn't any time limit on recalls. If it left the factory with a defect & the manufacturer recalled it, they will sort it, as long as it hasn't already been done.

Pedal going solid seems to me like its a vacuum issue.

ESP/ASR system fault = Clutch/brake Switch issue or ECU
ESP/ABS system fault = Speed sensor issue
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Old 04-12-13, 09:23 PM   #8
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Thought I'd revive my old thread with an interesting update.

The only fault picked up by our garage was a faulty ABS sensor, so this was replaced and for a while everything was ok. However the braking assistance failure happened again recently so we took the car to our nearest peugeot main dealer. Their diagnosis was, to me, very curious - coolant temperature sensor

It was explained to me that the CTS wrongly sensed that the engine was overheating and thus shut down some systems - including braking assistance and power steering. On the most recent occasion when the brakes failed it coincided with an 'engine temp too high, STOP' warning.

Has anyone ever experienced this before? It baffles me that someone designing such logic systems could design it to warn the driver to stop, then disable his brakes!
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Old 04-12-13, 09:37 PM   #9
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Sometimes, diagnostics can lead you right up the garden path. My wife had a Vauxhall Cavalier Automatic some years ago that would, for no apparent reason, stuff it's self into 'limp home' mode (lock the gearbox in 3rd gear). After a session with the local VM dealer's diagnostic computer, they said it was fault code 42. When I asked what that meant, the young technician said that he didn't know but would find out for us. A while later he returned and said he thought is was a faulty valve in the gearbox. As they didn't repair gearboxes, he said I should book it in for a gearbox replacement... around 3000. I politely declined.
I took the car to a local automatic gearbox specialist who knew all about Error Code 42. He reckoned it was a 'catch all' code for when the CPU didn't really know what was going on. A session on his computer diagnosed a faulty alternator, that was apparently putting high voltage 'spikes' into the system. A new alternator was fitted and the problem never occurred again!
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Old 05-12-13, 05:56 AM   #10
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Is there a vacum pump on this one, or is the brake servo just connected directly to the air plenum of the engine?

There could possibly be something off with the one-way-valve that only is supposed to let air go from the brake servo and out, not letting anything in.
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