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Old 18-01-17, 07:56 AM   #1
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Default Transponder Chip Mystery!

Hi

Hoping I can get some expert advice.

I only have 1x key for my 2001 Peugeot 406. (Plain key with ID44-7935AA Transponder chip
NO BUTTON ON and NO REMOTE)

I need another key. The agents are extremely expensive so
the Peugeot guy said I should go to a locksmith and come back to them for the coding.
I will say he is a new guy and I'm not sure he knows all he needs to know.

So I went to a locksmith to find out if he can do they key and give a quote. He took the key to the back of his shop, was away 5 min and then came out and said yes he can copy it and gave me a price. I take it he must have gone to the back to check the chip model and read it with his cloning machine.

When I went to start my car it said "Engine Immobiliser Fault"
The locksmith kicked his heels in and said his machine could not damage the key.
This key has been working for years before he touched it.

I had to get a Peugeot technician out as it is an automatic and cannot be towed.
The technician just used the same key, plugged in his laptop and
and just "re-synched" the key to the car and it worked.
However it cost me a lot of money.

I'm a bit confused. Could this locksmith's machine have done something to
the coding of the key?
Is there a security feature of some sort that prohibits cloning and does something to the key?
How could the Peugeot technician have used the same key if the chip is "write once"?

Does a key ordered from Peugeot have a code already written to the chip?
If I got a new key with a blank chip (ID44 - 7935AS) could Peugeot or anyone else with PP2000 code it
WITHOUT CLONING? (I don't want to risk the cloning route again)
If so, does this mean the car actually writes a code to the key?

I would really appreciate someone's help as so many people have told me so many different stories.


Thank very much!

Rusty

Last edited by rustybullet; 18-01-17 at 09:48 AM. Reason: edited
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Old 18-01-17, 08:24 AM   #2
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Non-remote keys are coded to the car the same way as remotes, using Peugeot Planet 2000. The procedure requires the use of the four digit security code which came with the car. If it is lost, the dealer can obtain it, or car key codes. The transponder code is generated in the PP2000 system, and it incorporates the vehicles VIN. I believe the code is registered in the vehicles BSI, and that the BSI can check against the VIN if the registration has to be repeated.

It use true that the transponder is write-once. I don't know what your locksmith did, but maybe his device put a static charge on the chip and prevented it functioning, in which case (just guessing) the second chap with the computer overcame this, perhaps by repeating the registration procedure.

Coding a new key is straightforward, but the wrinkle is that the procedure overwrites the BSI's memory of previously registered keys, so those keys have to be included in the exercise to remain operable.

Last edited by IanML; 18-01-17 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 18-01-17, 09:10 AM   #3
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Thanks for prompt reply IanML!

I do have the security code.

It's a mystery what happened at the locksmith!

I have ordered 2x good blanks to be cut at another locksmith. I also have 2x id44 transponder chips. So technically if I went to Peugeot with these 2x new keys with blank chips (as suggestd by the Peugeot Parts guy) would they be able to code them to my car? Would that mean the car writes the code to the chip? (as it is blank)
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Old 18-01-17, 11:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybullet View Post
Thanks for prompt reply IanML!

I do have the security code.

It's a mystery what happened at the locksmith!

I have ordered 2x good blanks to be cut at another locksmith. I also have 2x id44 transponder chips. So technically if I went to Peugeot with these 2x new keys with blank chips (as suggestd by the Peugeot Parts guy) would they be able to code them to my car? Would that mean the car writes the code to the chip? (as it is blank)
Yes, they would, as would anyone else with Peugeot Planet, see here.

Yes, the car will write to the chip, programming it to the car, and entering the code into the BSI memory. That applies to the keys with blank chips. With the existing key, it will simply add it to the memory. When performing the procedure with PP, it asks how many keys are to be included, and then prompts for each. It is really very easy.
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Old 19-01-17, 06:34 AM   #5
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Thanks IanML

Your help is very much appreciated!
Sorry to ask again but are you 100% sure the CAR actually
writes to a blank chip?

Thanks again!
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Old 19-01-17, 06:40 AM   #6
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TO IanML or anyone else that can help.
Are you familiar with "updating of the vehicles software"?
Woud this be the ECU software? How will it benefit me?
Can it pose a risk of corrupting the ECU?
I'm an IT engineer and I'm sort of comparing
it to a BIOS update of a mainboard.
However If it can improve gear change ratios etc. that would be great!
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Old 19-01-17, 08:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybullet View Post
Sorry to ask again but are you 100% sure the CAR actually
writes to a blank chip?
The chip is written to when the key is in the ignition key socket. The PC has no direct connection to the chip writer, which is the coil around the ignition key unit. So, in that sense, the car is doing the writing, even though the command to do so emanates from the PC running PP2000.

Not sure why that is important?
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Old 19-01-17, 09:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybullet View Post
TO IanML or anyone else that can help.
Are you familiar with "updating of the vehicles software"?
Woud this be the ECU software? How will it benefit me?
Can it pose a risk of corrupting the ECU?
I'm an IT engineer and I'm sort of comparing
it to a BIOS update of a mainboard.
However If it can improve gear change ratios etc. that would be great!
It sounds as if you have an AL4 automatic gearbox. There is a firmware update to the gearbox ECU which doubles the frequency of oscillation of two valves in the hydraulic control unit. This update is performed if the valves are malfunctioning, in conjunction with replacement of the valves for new ones which are designed for the higher frequency. Depending on age, your gearbox may have the change applied in manufacture.

It is not possible to affect the gear ratios, which are determined by the number of teeth on the gear components, but the shift points are alterable by use of the Sport and Snow buttons. Afaik, there are no hacks available to further alter anything.

I have an AL4 in my 206CC, and I select gears manually when descending steep hills, but most of the time I drive in D, and I'm pleasantly surprised how often the gearbox gets it right, including changing down for corners. I have tried the Sport and Snow buttons, but I haven't found them particularly useful - can't drive fast in Jersey, and we hardly ever get snow

Last edited by IanML; 19-01-17 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 19-01-17, 09:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanML View Post
The chip is written to when the key is in the ignition key socket. The PC has no direct connection to the chip writer, which is the coil around the ignition key unit. So, in that sense, the car is doing the writing, even though the command to do so emanates from the PC running PP2000.

Not sure why that is important?

I just needed some clarification as uninformed individuals
have given me such mixed info.

Thanks IanM!
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Old 19-01-17, 09:56 AM   #10
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I have decided to do all the minor services to the vehicle.
And was not sure if I should take it to Peugeot for the "software update"
as recommended by the Peugeot agent when he re-coded the key.
When the car started he notice a slight misfire when cold and said it could be the catalytic converter or might just need a software update.
I was just wondering if the software update will benefit my vehicle (i.e. better shifting)
or if I should just skip it.

Thanks again!
It's refreshing to speak to someone who knows what they are talking about!
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