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Old 28-06-16, 07:11 AM   #1
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Default EGR Fluctuating

307 2.0 HDI DW10ATED RHS Engine

I had the timing belt, water pump, thermostat and temp sensor replaced at a garage a couple of weeks ago, and to cut a long story short, I also had to replace the turbo wastegate solenoid valve, as the mechanics had damaged it. I bought the valve from a breakers, and tested it by sucking on the inlet, all seemed ok.

Since the belt/pump/valve was replaced, the car has been sluggish through the gears, but the turbo kicks in as normal around 1800rpm. When I say sluggish, there's more power compared to when it would go into limp home mode (such as getting to the breakers without a boost valve!), it just struggles to climb up not-too-steep hills in 4th, whereas normally it'd fly up them.

Also, just as the accelerator is pressed, there seems to be a bit of hesitation or a delay in acceleration. It's as though the engine holds back slightly and then "accepts" the signal to accelerate.

I've plugged into PP and there were a few errors on the engine management ECU, and it looks as though most of them were due to the coolant system components being disconnected/disturbed.

So I had a look at the live data with the engine running. First thing I noticed that the turbo pressure was 121 mbar less than the reference value at idle, and the turbo "position" was steady at 88%. Secondly, and probably more importantly and relevant to the post, the EGR position was fluctuating wildly between 45 and 60%, with the occasional jump up to 70ish.

I did have a fault code relating to the MAF sensor open circuit, but a visual assessment is all ok, and I put this down to the intake manifold being removed to get to the stat and sensor.

So, as I am looking at things, something is telling the EGR to change it's aperture size frequently and randomly. What I don't want to have to do is remove the EGR valve, as it's a pig of a job on this car! I'm hoping that the something along the lines of intake air is causing the EGR to fluctuate as much as it does.

Could part of the issue be the EGR going through a "learning" process, as I have replaced a vacuum valve?

It might be worth noting that, on PP, it's showing that the car is trying to regen, but has been unable to do so, probably because of the coolant system fault codes. The DPF condition is logged as "intermediate", so whilst it's not blocked completely, there could be a blow back of additional exhaust, thus causing the EGR to open more often.

Or am I missing something?

I've added the fault codes/readings. I couldn't grab the live data unfortunately.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated
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Last edited by jimmymarsbar; 28-06-16 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Added more detail (accelerator), added pics
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Old 28-06-16, 10:43 AM   #2
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What happens to turbo position as you rev the engine? Even when not under load turbo position and turbo position repeat should move about roughly at the same value. If they don't your solenoid valve is junk or there's a leak in it's air supply. My 2006 hose had split.

I think my EGR value jumps a bit (it's also dependent on temperature - so if the air intake temp sensor goes bad that might cause it), but if its idling should be more consistent. Is there an EGR reference and repeat (I can't remember!)? You can do an actuator test for the EGR valve in PP with engine off and it makes quite an audible click.

Since it's been messed around I'd clear codes and go for a drive, see what comes back then you know if it's actually a fault or not. Possible that where things have been messed around the connections are now loose.

If you suspect the MAF, unplug it so the car goes into "safe" mode and see if the problem goes away.
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Old 28-06-16, 11:11 AM   #3
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I've cleared the fault codes, so I'm going to go for a bit of a drive later after work and try put the DPF through a regen. I'll check for error codes once I get home and test out the turbo positions under load.

I'm hoping that the majority of the fault codes are due to things being disconnected.
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Old 28-06-16, 04:57 PM   #4
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Rechecked the ECU for faults, all went away fine and dandy (apart from the diff. pressure). So, I think I was right that they were caused by the removal of sensors and/or components.

Got some live data captured, there are 2 videos, 1 for the first lot of parameters, 1 for the second.

Parameters 1

Parameters 2

My observations;

Parameters 1

EGR seems to fluctuate consistently when idle and when the car is being revved. The car is stationary as it's being revved, so I'm assuming factors such as air flow would affect the EGR?

Airflow increases as the engine is revved, but the EGR more or less remains level (fluctuating between the upper and lower percentages mentioned in a previous post).

Parameters 2

Turbo pressure and reference value increase more or less at a similar rate when the engine is revved, not sure if the measured difference between the two is much of an issue. I did notice that the electrovalve position remained the same throughout, at 88%.

Now, for the big one......

Since the car came back from the garage (having the timing belt, water pump, stat and temp sensor replaced), the car has been sluggish between 800 and 1800rpm, but the turbo has been operating normally after 1800rpm.

I have spotted on the live data that as soon as the revs go up, the 3rd piston is deactivated

I'm not sure as to why this is the case - it wasn't like that before the car went in. I have done a quick bit of research, and noticed that members on here have had fault codes relating to 3rd piston deactivation and coolant system faults.

PP2000 is showing that the 3rd piston is being deactivated when the car is under load, yet there aren't any fault codes pertaining to a related fault. So, it's thrown a bit of a spanner in to the works.

Would the lack of a 3rd piston be accountable for the lack of kick at lower revs? I'm at a loss why the piston would be deactivated unnecessarily....
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Old 28-06-16, 05:39 PM   #5
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I actually meant to check turbo position and turbo position repeat, my bad. If you've got no faults though, these should be fine. On mine (RHR136 engine) the electrovalve open cycle is exactly the same value as turbo position reference so it does fluctuate if I sit and rev the engine.

Check turbo position repeat at key on engine off, just to rule out turbo control issues (should be around 10%)

Reading this would suggest deactivation of the piston is normal sometimes (never head of this before!)
306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum - 3rd piston shut off

Perhaps disconnect the 3rd piston deactivation solenoid and try?

Running out of my experience area now
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Old 29-06-16, 06:43 AM   #6
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I'd seen this as I was looking into it, I agree that it seems part of the normal operation. I guess it sounds more daunting than it actually is.

At least I can cross this off the list of possible causes for the lack of kick in lower revs
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