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Old 21-06-19, 07:11 AM   #1
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Default 5th gear synchro dogs mashed

Hi all,
My daughters 2001 307 (petrol 1.6) was jumping out of 5th, and then it became such that she could not select 5th at speed (selects when stopped ok). I removed the cover hoping it would be the 'loose nut', but oil was gritty (and very little of it?), and the dogs on the 5th gear are fairly mashed.
Questions:
1/ The wear on the dogs is restricted to about 4mm (see picture) - could it be that the gear selection was not pushing the synchro gear all the way onto the dogs? If so, what should I look for in the linkages (i.e. is there an adjustment for how far the selector is pushed by the stick?).
2/ Should I just try ensuring it has the right amount of the right oil in it, and see if we can get a few more thousand miles out of it? (i.e. would lack of oil cause the symptoms above, and in your experience will adding some improve it without changing the gear)
3/ If I wanted to change the gear, where in the uk can I buy such things, and how do I determine what ratio I need to buy, and will I need to change the mating synchro assembly at the same time?

She is on a very tight budget....



Seems I can't post a photo or a link to a photo; remove spaces from below may work:
photos.app.goo.gl / BnnRJiMJFvWsKDFu7

Last edited by simonh; 21-06-19 at 08:06 AM. Reason: trying to get photo to work
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Old 21-06-19, 08:04 AM   #2
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Better off getting a second hand one to be honest. Plenty of scrappies about. Lack of oil would be the obvious culprit but why is it so low? If no signs of leaks then draining the box to see what comes out will help work out if the level is indeed low. Either way the metal in oil and damage sounds terminal to me. I don't think there are adjustments but I could be wrong on that count. What year is it by the way?
Arnt we all strapped for cash nowadays??
A quick look in the Haynes says there are no adjustments and that the code for the box is MA5

Last edited by madbadandold; 21-06-19 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 21-06-19, 08:16 AM   #3
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Default car is 2001

Edited original post to add year
The car really needs both driveshafts too. Local scrappy quoted 120 for a box, and 30 a side for driveshafts; but they don't have anything in at the moment. I don't really fancy changing the box, but certainly could get a scrappy box and swap the gears over - this looks possible with it on the car. The ONLY hint of the gear with the dogs on it for sale is one on ebay at ~40, but no indication as to what ratio it is. Other places seem to indicate the gear alone would be 200...
The grit was strange; more like a soil consistency than metallic - most likely all the metal is stuck to the magnets. I have ordered an 8mm square drive to remove drain plugs, arriving tomorrow... so we will see about how much oil remains. No more than 100ml came out with the cover removed.
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Old 21-06-19, 11:22 AM   #4
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We're not talking about the old sand in the gearbox to make it quieter are we?
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Old 21-06-19, 06:45 PM   #5
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If you simply want to change the gearbox internals you really need to take the gearbox out to thoroughly clean it up inside. Leave a tiny bit of grit in there and it won't be long before you need to repeat the exercise....
I suggest you see if you can find a good secondhand box, it's not very difficult to take it out and you might as well have a look at the clutch while it's out.

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Old 23-06-19, 06:49 PM   #6
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Default Gears out

Thanks for comments so far .

I took the 5th gear assembly out today.

Another picture of the dogs:
photos.app.goo.gl / ZNB1t891NR4rEGLS9

a picture of the other bit:
photos.app.goo.gl / QjoELbwX1vAs2HwG7

The other parts do not look overly worn.
Wasted 2 hours removing the battery tray; but what this told me (bolts mashed) was it had been out before; so probably had a gearbox change / major service earlier.
I found NO metal on the drain plug - total of about 300mm of oil drained, 2000ml added.
After adding oil, 5th gear still would not select whilst moving (really nasty noises).

So, removed the gears. (Now a 4 gear car !). I think i'll try to find ANY MA5 gearbox from a breaker, check the 5th gear before buying, and swap the gears over. (not TOO worries about ratios). The rest of the box is really smooth, no noise. Don't really understand where all the metal went. I suspect that it has been cleaned out before we got the car.... (see question).

Theory:
The 5th gear damage was already present, and the metal removed previously. The 5th gear nut came loose, and so too much play resulted in it jumping out (maybe again?).
We bought the car as a snip at 150 3 years ago, and it's been fine. Maybe she sold it cheap after someone tightened the nut and replaced the oil, and then told her to be rid of it?

Question:
If it WAS the nut, would i have easily noticed? There was some play in the assembly before I disassembled it (maybe 2mm?)... Could it be that if I was to put it back together again with the damaged parts, but with a tight nut, actually 5th gear would be ok?

Note to self: 33 teeth on 5th gear with dogs.

Last edited by simonh; 23-06-19 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 24-06-19, 07:41 AM   #7
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Its a MA box, a decent gearbox rebuild place can overhaul these cheap enough now.

If the car is a keeper & you don't mind it being off the road for a short while it maybe an idea to get the box out & overhauled.
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