Uprated cam for 206 1.4

[Blufreak]

I've now got straight-thru stainless exhaust manifold fitted,back box is lined up too, but was looking for suggestions for a small to medium gain cam for a 1.4 8 valve 206 quicksilver. i've seen a few new online from Kent for example at around 200 but few mates keep mentioning vts/vtr cams,can anyone suggest any cars with cams that would offer an improvement and recommended instead of specifically developed peugeot 206 ones? (yes im considering a trip to the breakers) with a more mechanically-minded mate

[chopper1192]

You're flogging a dead horse. You could spend a serious amount of money and still not have 90BHP under your belt. Probably the worst variant of the TU engine I'm afraid.

[danielr]

what variant of the TU3 engine do you have?

have you looked on service box? what were you starting off with?

I know that in a thread before you've determined that you have the 8v engine, not the 16v one that was developed for the quicksilver model.

are you able to look in service box yourself, or post the last 8 digits of your VIN?

[Blufreak]

appreciate your input chopper but either way,its the first car i've personally modified and am going to do it anyway,not expecting magical results and the cars also for day to day anyway. but i've seen a fair few of these cars realtively well tuned up beyond what they originally were. three seperate ppl all said just the manifold has woke the engine up a bit once u hit 3k-rpm

Sure,i'll have a gander at the VIN as i dont know much about the specific peugeot engines etc,for some reason i still remember my old astras one but not this one lol.

[danielr]

The thing is this:
There is a good change that you'll never get anything like anything decent out of the car.
You say other people have gotten good things out of it... but...
What engine did they start with, how much did they spend, who did the work? What modifications did they do?

In general I believe that it's always possible to get "more" from a car in one way of another, but. (and it's a big but)
You have to be prepared to make some kind of sacrifice. be that either reliability, (you can probably tune the engine until such a time as it just goes bang -i.e one very powerful but very uncontrolled explosion, rather than a series of less powerful but controlled explosions happening in the engine!)

Or you can sacrifice money.
And if money is no object, then why not start with a better "project" car?

As with all things you get the choice of good, reliable and cheap, but you only get to pick two of the three

Provided you know that this will be flogging a dead horse and you still want to spend your money anyway...

Are you planning to do this work yourself, or are you planning on going to a professional?

Whilst the head of off I assume you'll take the time to properly polish and grind it?

Are you doing any other work? Fitting bigger valves for example?

What is the compatibility with the 16v head? (with the amount of money you'd spend on serious head work, if you could just "bolt on" a better flowing head anyway...)

Have you worked out anyone to do a remap once you have improved the airflow?

What other parts have you considered? e.g. a lightened flywheel will probably make your car feel nicer to drive and let you put more power down faster (without actually changing the car) (lessening the rotational mass of the fly wheel has a very significant effect)

You understand what chopper is saying thought right?
You are talking of spending hundreds, if not thousands of pounds in work, and at the end of the day my ten year old standard 2.0 HDi will still likely have more torque, more power, out accelerate and reach a higher top speed than your heavily modified car.
(yes, it'll also sound like a tractor whilst doing it, but it also cost less than the mods that you're planning to do.)

The other thing is, by the time you've spent out on the modified exhaust, modified air filter, modified head with modified cams, and a modified map for all the modified crap that you bolted to the car...
you'll realise that you could have probably done a complete engine transplant for less, and had a "stock" (-read more reliable) engine that was much bigger, (which your insurers would have liked more too).

[Blufreak]

ok,well last 8 of the VIN is 42667809

im aware i can get a whole new engine,from for example a donor 106 gti which has been offered to me. the first thing you need to bare in mind though,is as i have said,im new to mechanics/mods. until two years ago i was a computer guy but got interested in engines/performance,only last few months i been able to do sumat about it. so i'd rather mess with a car i bought for 850 and have no qualms getting rid of if it cocks up. ya learn by doing after all

as for the work being done,i have several mates who work in garages and a few that are heavilly into modding, mostly fords though lol. they're all quite happy to help me on my drive with things,and anything that cant be done on my drive i can get it done for mates rates so all good.

things being considered/looked into atm are fast-road cam or one out of suitable donor car, re-map, new exhaust, a bit of strengthening work possibly aswell and removing the back-seats,though as i found out so far,every time i plan to do that,is the only time people want a lift somewhere lol. and a mate is going to spray/clean up the engine so it doesnt look like something from a mechanics nightmare!

[danielr]

your engine type is
TU3JP

The bits that you really should care about if you're tuning this car are (from vehicle characteristics section of service box)

ENGINE INJECTION TU3JP
Gearbox Transmission
TRANSMISSION BVM5
FINAL DRIVE RATIO REAR AXLE HYPOID GEARSET 16 X 65
WHEEL STYLE 14 INCHES OPTIMIZED WHEEL
TYRE (SIZE, TYPE) 175X65X14 T TYRES
WHEEL (TYPE) STEEL WHEELS
GEARBOX TYPE MA

other information (from parts database section)

gear ratios
1st (12x41)
2nd (21x38)
3rd (32x41)
4th (40x39)
5th (43x22)

(with the gear ratio and tyre size information you can work out how fast you will be going for a given engine speed.)

Other information that you may care about...
your vehicle weighs

other data can be found here:
1998 Peugeot 206 1.4 XS Technical specifications

including...
peak torque is 82 foot pounds @ 3200RPM
peak power is 75HP @5500 RPM

frontal area is 1.97m^3
and drag coefficient is 0.32
your vehicles weight is 950KG/2094lbs

(the last numbers are included as they let you work out the power needed to be at a given speed on a level/flat surface) (that's wheel power, not engine power)

Regards what you're trying to do. here are some links:
TU3JP Engine Build..Head Removed.. (Page 7) - Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum
TU3JP standard cam specs?
TU3JP potential?
TU5JP injectors on a TU3JP - Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum

These are probably the most interesting to you...

Fitting a 1.3 head to tu3jp 206 - 106 Rallye Register Forum
S1 inlet on TU3JP - 106 Rallye Register Forum

Basically, a look around based on your engine code shows:
the engine is not a popular mod engine, (for the reasons stated by chopper lots of work/lots of cost/little return compared to just starting out with a bigger/better engine.)
but in contrast to what was said, it is possible to get some remarkable returns. (some talk of 150HP!)

The reason it's not a popular mod is pretty much this.
1, people buy the 1.4 for cheap insurance, if you want cheap insurance then modifying cars is not really for you.
2, more powerful cars in the 206 range don't cost so much more (and are easier to modify)
3, to get more power from the engine, you pretty much need to rip of half the bits, and replace them with other bits from other more powerful engines (for example you're asking about taking the cam from a vts, you'd do better off taking the whole head from a vts, pretty much to turn them into those more powerful engines!)
4, you have to replace so very many bits, in pursuit of power that the engine just doesn't have the capability to give. and that's more expensive than starting with a more powerful engine.



really, the long and the short of it is this. (based on what you're saying)
car cost £800
vts head ~£100 - £200
skim for head ~£100
new valves/valve guides etc ~£100 - £200
new exhaust ~£200
new airbox/filter ~£50 - £100
personalised remap of ECU ~£400
total cost ~£1750 - £2000 (as a rough estimate)
total power you can in the very best of circumstances hope to achieve, 90 (what you'll likely get) - 150HP (needs a lot more work) (e.g 50 - 100% gain) -the steps above are still only going to give you a sub 100HP car

after that you're really going to want to upgrade the brakes to the vented discs on the front. probably want to fit different suspension to handle the extra power. slightly wider tyres to put the power down, the needed list goes on, and the expenses keep rising.

on the other hand,
my 2.0hdi cost £1100 and out the box already has much of what you are trying to spend lots of money getting, it's already got 90HP (a figure you're going to spend quite a bit trying to get), it's already got bigger better brakes, wider tyres, suspension that can handle the power.
and it's already proved that 115HP is available with an off the shelf (cheaper) remap, a personalised remap with dyno runs etc would set you back the same £400 that yours will, but power gains are around 50% (so up to the 150HP mark.)

After that there are simple bolt on parts, (like the fuel pump from a BMW, different fuel rail pressure sensor) that are relatively cheap that if fitted before the remap will show your power increase north of 150 up to around 200 maybe above.

(and you'll have spent less money, and less time!)

basically, like chopper said.
those engines don't have a lot left to give, if you want to put in endless amounts of time and money, then you will reportedly see HP north of 100. but it'll be a long and expensive road getting there.

and that's the point. if money is no object then why not start with a better lump?!


basically, if you want to get into tuning, you'll get a much better experience choosing a better engine, that you'll see more results from and get more satisfaction from.

there is an old saying "you can't polish a turd"

[chopper1192]

You gotta admire the lads dedication.

lets suggest a compromise - have the head off and sent to a professional tuner for some serious porting and a proper valve-seat cut, and a nice fast road cam. Maybe match the inlet to the head while they've got it all on the bench. That's liable to pep the engine up a bit, but still chime in South of £1000.

Any more than that and I would seriously look at a 1.6 8v or 16v, both of which have a lot more to give and would probably themselves cost under £1000 to buy and fit.

[Blufreak]

Firstly, thanks for all the info,gives me a lot to look at and see just what length its worth going to,im pretty sure i can get most things done at a discount rate for parts and beers for labour so not so bad.

I probably should have mentioned its already lowered (rear on standard setup just dropped on its arse,and front has uprated lowering by 35mm or so) and the tires/alloy are bigger and wider than stock aswell but only just,dont wanna go bigger than 15's and sacrifice what little acceleration it has so its on 185/55/15's.

I'll take some of the above to few mates and see what they can pull together,but yeah the 106 gti engine is still a possibility for sub £1000,im just dubious about buying a used engine out of gti cos most have been ragged senseless by previous chav owners.

As i say,im just interested in seein how its all done and what effect it has on the car,and when im happy with it etc. then probably been new car due anyway,im a sod when i get a bee in my bonnett as ya can more than likely tell lol

[Blufreak]

sorry,its one 195/50/15's..... not sure what i was on yesterday lol